Max Tire Grip for Crit Racing - What Would You Recommend?

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KWalker
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by KWalker

I'd recommend you simply get better at cornering by practicing it if its a limiter. 90PSI on those tires and rim is a pretty universal starting point. If your handling is that bad, your bike fit is preventing you from weighting with confidence. I see that a lot when riders are too high/too far back.
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gfeldy
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by gfeldy

I saw that with you over the weekend... BOOM! JK
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KWalker
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by KWalker

?
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gfeldy
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by gfeldy

just messing with ya
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racingcondor
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by racingcondor

KWalker wrote:I'd recommend you simply get better at cornering by practicing it if its a limiter.


This. If you're running Conti GP4000S 25mm tyres then nothing you change to is going to give you significantly better grip and you're more than capable of leaning the bike over hard enough to pedal strike.

What you're lacking is the confidence to ride smoothly through the corners without over braking beforehand which is costing you position compared to other riders around you. I'm exactly the same in the wet.

Practice, weight distribution and familiarity with the circuit will help but unless your bike is really badly set up (weight far too far over one wheel) or something is very flexy where it shouldn't be kit isn't a big factor.

TomColnago
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by TomColnago

on my clinchers i run vittoria open corsa cx III and my tubular i run vittoria corsa cx II again and find these very grippy but not long lasting. i like my pressures higher and in my tubs my front is 130psi and my rear is 135psi (i am 84kg) in the clinchers its 115 front 120 rear. ive only been racing for 2 years in crits but find the vittoria tyres give me a lot of confidence. hope this helps :D

KWalker
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by KWalker

When I started racing I went to practice crits and worked on stuff like this. Then at the end of rides I'd go to a business park or industrial area and do laps and look at my speed and try to corner as fast as possible. In the age of powermeters, Strava, and coaches people forget to learn the basics.
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otoman
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by otoman

one thing you mentioned in the original post was maybe low profile wheels. I have been in a few crits with deeper wheels that had enough gusting winds that I had some sphincter clench. Maybe getting rid of the possibility of wind suddenly pulling your front wheel hard by going with the Pacentis or similar would be helpful.

The other thing is get your head LOW in the corners, chin on stem. Physically, your head (inner ears, eyes) will be at less of a lean at a given angle than if you were in the "sit up and beg" position. I don't know if I'm explaining that clearly.... But if you are low you perceive less lean both visually and physically. Johan Van Summeren has to move his head and body a lot further to achieve a 10 degree lean than does Caleb Ewan.

Using the same physics of moving your body less, countersteer. Keep your body upright, inside knee IN to the top tube and push the inside hand forward towards the apex while leaning the bike in, again with your body more vertical than your bike (head still low though). It is the opposite of Moto GP.

Practicing with a friend who you trust in an open parking lot. Just follow that one friend.

Notice I didn't mention anything about tires. I agree with the others' responses.
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tommasini
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by tommasini

As has been mentioned some already. The primary focus I make is to Heavily weight the down outside pedal and try to lighten the pressure against the seat. How this was explained to me was that wHile your body center of gravity stays the same in all that. the part of the bike seeing that weight acting on it drops much lower. The bike and its tires are acting on the road so a lower center of gravity acting on it and that weighted pedal is better. You still have the horizontal force acting through the tire face but the downward force is more directly over the tire contact point with the road. And one last caveat the weight off the saddle greatly increases maneuverability of the lighter bike (versus a not so similar heavy road race motorcycle) in case of last second changes in the prefered path.

DeeHubbs
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by DeeHubbs

TomColnago wrote:i like my pressures higher and in my tubs my front is 130psi and my rear is 135psi (i am 84kg) in the clinchers its 115 front 120 rear.

Unless your ridding on perfectly smooth marble like pavement, you're running you're tire way, way to high.

wingguy
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by wingguy

KWalker wrote:When I started racing I went to practice crits and worked on stuff like this. Then at the end of rides I'd go to a business park or industrial area and do laps and look at my speed and try to corner as fast as possible. In the age of powermeters, Strava, and coaches people forget to learn the basics.

Most valuable comment bar none.

Loads of people go out and smash hill rep after hill rep - how many go out and work on some corner reps?

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Dr.Dos
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by Dr.Dos

Specializeds will give you confidence because they are so damn quiet during cornering. While (otherwise awesome) 4000SII start squeeling, Cottons will remain silent and appear to have neverending grip.

On the other hand, Specialized Cottons are fragile, I punctured twice this season while I almost never do with Contis. Use latex inner tubes because chances are you keep control because they tend to lose air much slower and you're able to switch wheels in the pits.

And yes, run your tires as wide and air pressure as low as possible. Forget about a few Watts saved for resistances, cornering 5km/h faster is what really makes you a winner.

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Tomstr
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by Tomstr

KWalker wrote:When I started racing I went to practice crits and worked on stuff like this. Then at the end of rides I'd go to a business park or industrial area and do laps and look at my speed and try to corner as fast as possible. In the age of powermeters, Strava, and coaches people forget to learn the basics.


This.

I do feel a bit old now. :D
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TomColnago
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by TomColnago

DeeHubbs wrote:
TomColnago wrote:i like my pressures higher and in my tubs my front is 130psi and my rear is 135psi (i am 84kg) in the clinchers its 115 front 120 rear.

Unless your ridding on perfectly smooth marble like pavement, you're running you're tire way, way to high.


Purpose built crit tracks here which are nice and smooth

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I would agree it will be mostly lack of confidence by the OP that is the limiting factor but tyres can help. The contis are as good as is gets for a tubed clincher for grip although I prefered the vittoria corsa. The new Corsa G+ is meant to be slightly better but I have not tried it.

I get on well with tubeless tyres -IRC the RBCC tyres grip like Vittoria Pave's. I have them mounted on Pacenti SL23's. I quite like tubulars too. I have some rebranded veloflex 22mm tubs on one wheelset which I race on. Pressures I use are 140F/160R PSI and grip is excellent.

So you already have good tyres and wheels changing that may help a bit but not if you are lacking in confidence in the bends. Your not the only one. Most people brake in corners I want to go flat out through. One day I will come a cropper I am sure.

For clinchers I find wider tyres helps alot with grip. 23mm tyres on narrow rims feels a bit skittish 23mm conti GP4000SII tyres on wide rims feels good but those conti's on the wide rims can be up to 26mm wide. 25mm tyres on wide rims feels good too but I dont know if there is more grip. Comfort is improved for sure.

The competition tubs are good but the GP4000sII tub is better for grip.

So if you really want new wheels try tubeless (lower pressure can be used) or tubs but try vittoria corsa's, veloflex or the conti GP4000sII tubs. Otherwise stick with what you have as those Zipps are not not narrow so buying another wide clincher wheelset may not change much unless there is a big difference in internal width.

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