Is Campagnolo 11 speed just harder to get right than 10 speed was?
Moderator: robbosmans
Following several threads recently about Campagnolo, it seems like 11 speed is harder to get right. Some of the posts map with my experience with 11 speed.
I've had 10 speed on multiple bikes, multiple groups and I never had a problem setting it up with perfect shifting.
Since going to 11 speed, I had quick success with my Time frame. On my Parlee (same parts) I constantly struggled with a poor shifting rear derailleur. I then got my C59 Colnago and struggled again. On both frames it acted like drag in the rear derailleur cable. Shifting up the cassette to larger cogs would usually work fine. Shifting down where it requires the derailleur's spring to pull the cable was often problematic especially towards the smallest cogs where, I imagine, spring tension is the lowest.
Finally, I decided to install a new cable set, cut every cable perfect, try not to bend or kink cables. That helped on the Colnago and I got it to 99% of what I'd call perfect. I still can't get it to 100% like I could with 10 speed every single time on the first try.
I'm not a noob with this. I've been wrenching on bikes for 40 years. I've set up dozens of Campagnolo groups. I never had these challenges until 11 speed.
(BTW, I've been a Campy guy since the late 70s. I even stuck with them during the dark years of 7 speed Synchro which was so bad compared to SIS.)
I've had 10 speed on multiple bikes, multiple groups and I never had a problem setting it up with perfect shifting.
Since going to 11 speed, I had quick success with my Time frame. On my Parlee (same parts) I constantly struggled with a poor shifting rear derailleur. I then got my C59 Colnago and struggled again. On both frames it acted like drag in the rear derailleur cable. Shifting up the cassette to larger cogs would usually work fine. Shifting down where it requires the derailleur's spring to pull the cable was often problematic especially towards the smallest cogs where, I imagine, spring tension is the lowest.
Finally, I decided to install a new cable set, cut every cable perfect, try not to bend or kink cables. That helped on the Colnago and I got it to 99% of what I'd call perfect. I still can't get it to 100% like I could with 10 speed every single time on the first try.
I'm not a noob with this. I've been wrenching on bikes for 40 years. I've set up dozens of Campagnolo groups. I never had these challenges until 11 speed.
(BTW, I've been a Campy guy since the late 70s. I even stuck with them during the dark years of 7 speed Synchro which was so bad compared to SIS.)
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- bikerjulio
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I too have spent years with Campy.
My Syncro2 shifter teamed up with a late model C Record RD is fabulous BTW. Love it. Best shifting bike in my collection. It and the RD were a complete redesign over Syncro.
When it comes to 11-speed, I find it no more difficult to set up. I'm suspecting it's something you are getting wrong with the cabling.
My Syncro2 shifter teamed up with a late model C Record RD is fabulous BTW. Love it. Best shifting bike in my collection. It and the RD were a complete redesign over Syncro.
When it comes to 11-speed, I find it no more difficult to set up. I'm suspecting it's something you are getting wrong with the cabling.
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?
One.
So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM
How many drivers does a buggy have?
One.
So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM
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it is surprising that with a bike for 40 years.
Last edited by rlarldhks86 on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That is why I said I'm 99% there with my C59. I mean it is good enough that I'm not going to fiddle with it anymore on my c59.
But I keep reading things like 'campy doesn't work well with short chainstays or that 'Colnago's derailleur hanger is at the low end of the spec for campy and sometimes makes things difficult'. It seems like we didn't have issues like this with 10 speed.
Fortunately, I've had zero problems with Ultra Torque.
But I keep reading things like 'campy doesn't work well with short chainstays or that 'Colnago's derailleur hanger is at the low end of the spec for campy and sometimes makes things difficult'. It seems like we didn't have issues like this with 10 speed.
Fortunately, I've had zero problems with Ultra Torque.
Synchro2 was awesome. Actually the first 8s Ergopower were based on th Syncrho2 concept ( the G Spring concept was a carry over from the down tune shifters) and to this day I still have a Vitus 992 with a 1992 Record Ergopower that is a pleasure to ride.
Then I ride to work an alu BH from 1997 with the first 9s Veloce, again fantastic.
The 10s system has already been discussed.
The first 11s iteration was finicky at times and there was the spacer patch, but after a year they got it absolutely right. Now with the Embrace mech the chain shifts under less tension in theory, in practice it is hard to notice any difference.
Can't even imagine how many miles I've put on Campag over the years, it served me as nothing else all this time.
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Then I ride to work an alu BH from 1997 with the first 9s Veloce, again fantastic.
The 10s system has already been discussed.
The first 11s iteration was finicky at times and there was the spacer patch, but after a year they got it absolutely right. Now with the Embrace mech the chain shifts under less tension in theory, in practice it is hard to notice any difference.
Can't even imagine how many miles I've put on Campag over the years, it served me as nothing else all this time.
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I suppose as the gears got closer and closer together, it has gotten more important to set up perfectly for sure. And the newest 2015 stuff takes a bit of mindset change to get the front derailleur totally dialed. But I like it. Taking as much care as you can to get all the friction out of the cables is the biggest thing you can do to ensure good performance, and making sure your frame meets their specs for derailleur hangers.
Like @XCProMD said, the first interation (2009) of 11sp had a few running changes... a spacer change in the cassette, a bushing change in the right shifter, and finally a stiffer return spring in the rear derailleur, oh and a new part to enable the rear derailleur to better handle the 29 tooth cassette introduced a year or two later. Changes beyond those have been incremental but nice, like improved chainring stiffness to accommodate the force of EPS derailleurs, new tooth profiles, etc. All good stuff.
Like @XCProMD said, the first interation (2009) of 11sp had a few running changes... a spacer change in the cassette, a bushing change in the right shifter, and finally a stiffer return spring in the rear derailleur, oh and a new part to enable the rear derailleur to better handle the 29 tooth cassette introduced a year or two later. Changes beyond those have been incremental but nice, like improved chainring stiffness to accommodate the force of EPS derailleurs, new tooth profiles, etc. All good stuff.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
I'll agree with what the other guys are saying - i'm not a real mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but I've had no trouble setting up my 11sp Campag, last gen or current.
Only things that seem to phase it are if you kink the cable or have the derailleur loop too short, or if the top pulley is the wrong distance from the cassette. Other than that it's just instant awesome
Only things that seem to phase it are if you kink the cable or have the derailleur loop too short, or if the top pulley is the wrong distance from the cassette. Other than that it's just instant awesome
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I have super record 11 speed on my sannino for 8000km. Works flawlessly and it has done since day 1. I do however use powercordz cables with ashima kevlar outers. These are really slick and there is no steel to even give a hint of corrosion.
What type of bars are you running? I find that the new, fancy internally routed bars cause some severe bends in cables and are going to compromise shifting. The RD for me was easy to setup, the FD on the other hand was a bear compared to SRAM since there's so little clearance on each side of the cage. If it's having trouble going up or down, it's drag somewhere and I doubt it's a Campy vs other problem.
Ryan, I have been wondering about my internally routed bars. I did have Vuka Sprints on my Time and I had no shifting problems and those bars were a big PITA to install. I had the most issues on the Parlee with the cables taped underneath. I do have 3T bars on my Colnago with internal routing. They were another PITA to get right but as I said, I painstakingly routed those cables striving for no kinds and no drag. As I said, it's 99% now on the Colnago.
When I got my combo done, I had two Ergonova bars to choose from, an internally routed one and a grooved one, I chose the latter because shifting was better.
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