Is Campagnolo 11 speed just harder to get right than 10 speed was?

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graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

Calnago wrote:I suppose as the gears got closer and closer together, it has gotten more important to set up perfectly for sure. And the newest 2015 stuff takes a bit of mindset change to get the front derailleur totally dialed. But I like it. Taking as much care as you can to get all the friction out of the cables is the biggest thing you can do to ensure good performance, and making sure your frame meets their specs for derailleur hangers.
Like @XCProMD said, the first interation (2009) of 11sp had a few running changes... a spacer change in the cassette, a bushing change in the right shifter, and finally a stiffer return spring in the rear derailleur, oh and a new part to enable the rear derailleur to better handle the 29 tooth cassette introduced a year or two later. Changes beyond those have been incremental but nice, like improved chainring stiffness to accommodate the force of EPS derailleurs, new tooth profiles, etc. All good stuff.


As Calnago says above - add an extra sprocket into the same place and of course it makes it all the more critical that every aspect of workshop practice is done right and that manufacturer's specs are adhered to ... looking back through the prism of modern practice, I know we used to "get away with" horrendous things, on a serial basis, back in the days of 5 speed ... but good, methodical and accurate workshop practice will always win out and it doesn't matter whether you are dealing with 5, 6 ... 11 speed, if your basic practice is good and you pay attention, all of those systems will work the better for it. I suspect 1 x 12 SRAM will just take that to the next degree.

Expectations have also changed. When I get onto my 1980s Gazelle AB with Campag Super Record of the period, I'm reminded of that ... I had the pleasure and privelige of riding with an ex-TdF winner a couple of years ago into Paris. He was on his fully-restored TdF-winning bike and he said to me afterwards "I have no idea how I won the TdF on that bike" ... it wasn't that it was a bad bike ... by the standards of the day it was the pinnacle of available technology ... it's just that he's been conditioned over the intervening years to expect a level of performance that modern, fully integrated systems can and will deliver when properly put together. But the emphasis, now, more than ever is on "fully integrated" and "properly" ...
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

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condorman
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by condorman

Hoping to have no trouble fitting super record mechanical after 0 hours experience with campagnolo. Wish me luck!

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

is the hanger straight? even with a new frame its worth checking.. also dial in as much jockey tension as you can get away with.. its your friend with campagnolo

dogrange
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by dogrange

sugarkane wrote:is the hanger straight? even with a new frame its worth checking.. also dial in as much jockey tension as you can get away with.. its your friend with campagnolo


Is this "b screw" tension? Sorry, Campy been here as well.


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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

the screw on the jockey arm.. its not the same as the B screw on a shimano mech and works differently
dial it all the way in. then much sure the bike is little ring and easiest cog in the rear.. only back it off enough to stop the mech bouncing off the cassette.. thats how much tension you need

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

Mine was tricky and the front mech is still not brilliant. My 10 S was easy and perfect after 10 years including winters. I like the look of the 11 and love the 4-arm cranks but the shift to an indexing front is such a bad move, the almost friction shift action of the 10 front was perfect. My rear mech looks to be angled inwards slightly and one of my friends Record one appears the same... not sure what's going on. It shifts fine and does not foul the wheel. It was noisy for the first couple of 1000 miles and a bit stiff but works fine now.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

AJS914
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by AJS914

condorman wrote:Hoping to have no trouble fitting super record mechanical after 0 hours experience with campagnolo. Wish me luck!


Condorman, this link helped me learn a few tricks:

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/articl ... ers-24781/

Make sure to:

Not kink cables ever, even slightly
Cut cables perfectly, file the ends smooth if needed, open up, the holes with an awl
Don't lose the little brass washers in the levers if you are installing new cables
If your bars are internally routed, the twists and turns make it even more difficult to get a clean, unkinked path. Consider just taping cables under the bars

wingguy
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by wingguy

I've just routed mine through some internal Tornovas and so far the shifting is perfect and the lever action significantly lighter than the Red that just came off. Keep in mind there are two cable exits in the shifters - I reran mine from the default inside path to the outside one to get an easier outer cable route into the shifter.

natiedean24
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by natiedean24

graeme_f_k wrote:
Expectations have also changed. When I get onto my 1980s Gazelle AB with Campag Super Record of the period, I'm reminded of that ... I had the pleasure and privelige of riding with an ex-TdF winner a couple of years ago into Paris. He was on his fully-restored TdF-winning bike and he said to me afterwards "I have no idea how I won the TdF on that bike" ... it wasn't that it was a bad bike ... by the standards of the day it was the pinnacle of available technology ... it's just that he's been conditioned over the intervening years to expect a level of performance that modern, fully integrated systems can and will deliver when properly put together. But the emphasis, now, more than ever is on "fully integrated" and "properly" ...


Spill it. Who you talkin' about?


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bremerradkurier
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by bremerradkurier

VeloNews had a tip to insert a washer/spacer between the RD and the hanger which has the effect of raising return spring tension.

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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

Not something you should need to do.. The only way the tension is not going to be high enough is if the mech is broken

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

natiedean24 wrote:
graeme_f_k wrote:
Expectations have also changed. When I get onto my 1980s Gazelle AB with Campag Super Record of the period, I'm reminded of that ... I had the pleasure and privelige of riding with an ex-TdF winner a couple of years ago into Paris. He was on his fully-restored TdF-winning bike and he said to me afterwards "I have no idea how I won the TdF on that bike" ... it wasn't that it was a bad bike ... by the standards of the day it was the pinnacle of available technology ... it's just that he's been conditioned over the intervening years to expect a level of performance that modern, fully integrated systems can and will deliver when properly put together. But the emphasis, now, more than ever is on "fully integrated" and "properly" ...


Spill it. Who you talkin' about?


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Can't - he still rides a bike provided by the same sponsor as he did back then ...
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

sugarkane wrote:Not something you should need to do.. The only way the tension is not going to be high enough is if the mech is broken


Correct. If you *think* you don't have enough derailleur return spring tension, do the 1kg test (Chorus through Super Record) or the 900g test (everything else). If the system fails that, conduct the test with an equivalent length of properly prepared outer, off the bike, directly connecting the RD and the lever, so not involving frame cable guides etc - if the derailleur fails the first, passes the second, the problem is somewhere in the cable route.

The amount of difference that you can make with a washer between hanger and mech, whilst maintaining enough engagement between the top pivot bolt and the threads would likely not be enough to make a significant difference to the spring extension (although it is part of the reason that Campagnolo give a spec for hanger width as well as the distance from the inside face of the hanger to the top sprocket) ... consider a rear derailleur movement of approx 41.5 mm, a 1 mm spacer (i.e. 1 fixing bolt thread pitch) will only increase spring tension by around 2.4% - Hooks Law.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC
Pls contact via velotechcycling"at"aim"dot"com, not PM, for a quicker answer. Thanks!

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HammerTime2
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by HammerTime2

The toe clip king.

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mjduct
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by mjduct

rear derailleur hanger is always my problem, I finally bought a PARK DAG 2.2

once you get your hanger true to your wheel, your life will be much easier!

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