Upgraded to a new bike, and now I want to upgrade my old bike. What to do?

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joshuagull
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:09 pm

by joshuagull

I bought a cheap road bike from bikesdirect back in 2011 after knee surgery to see if I even liked cycling as a form of exercise, and honestly never rode it much (I had gone from 185 lbs to 215 lbs due to being sedentary and cycling was hard on the punchy, rolling hills around where I live).

Over the last eight months I took control of my life and dropped 58 lbs down to 157 lbs through a clean diet and regular cycling (1,000 miles so far this year). Cycling is a lot easier now and I've gotten bit by the bike bug big time.

As a reward for meeting and surpassing my health and fitness goals I just replaced my bikesdirect bike with a Cervelo S3 Ultegra 6800 with Zipp 60s that I'm picking up from the shop this week. I can't wait!

I'm still wanting to keep the old bikesdirect bike for beater purposes though (rides with family, around town where I might be concerned with theft, etc). I would like to throw some upgrades at it to refresh it so that it doesn't feel like such a piece when I hop on it after being on the Cervelo (within reason, obviously they're not even in the same ballpark).

My main priority is taking the old bike down to the 6061 aluminum frame and replacing the mix-matched hodge podge of drivetrain components that came with the bike to a proper 105 5800 groupset all around. I'm also planning on putting the stock take-off Mavic Cosmic Elite S wheels from the Cervelo on as well.

Most of this seems very straightforward. Derailleurs, brakes, shifters/levers, chain, new cables and even the wheels are a straight swap over. I think. I've never built a bike before so this is a new foray for me, but I am very mechanically inclined. Does anyone see any issues with any of this stuff not being a direct swap?

The part I am hung up on is the bottom bracket. I want to get the 105 5800 crankset on there but the bike came with a sealed cartridge bearing bottom bracket. How can I convert this to work with the Shimano 105 crankset (or can I)?

Image

Photo of the beater bike before the fizik saddle. Otherwise the bike is the same right now. Below is the only info I have on the bike.

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Is it even possible for me to get the 105 5800 crankset onto this bike?
Last edited by joshuagull on Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

joshuagull
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:09 pm

by joshuagull

Also any recommendations on a replacement budget carbon fork with tire clearance for 25c or 28c tires would be huge. The rear can take 28c as-is but the front fork won't clear much more than 23c, and I'd like to run 28c front and rear if possible.

by Weenie


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ALAN Carbon+
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Location: Canberra, Australia

by ALAN Carbon+

Swapping the crankset should be no problem. You would just need the appropriate bottom bracket (probably bsa thread)

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joshuagull
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:09 pm

by joshuagull

I'm mechanically inclined enough to handle *most* of the build, but the pesky bottom bracket stuff is still a bit of a mystery to me. I know it's a sealed cartridge unit on there right now--square mount I think--just not sure how to fit something like the 105 5800 crankset on there like I'm familiar with the PF30/BBright adapters for the Cervelo. Sealed cartridge bottom brackets are a total mystery to me.

dmp
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: Seattle

by dmp

I suspect that you will need a new bottom bracket, because the original one is for a triple crankset and the 105 you want to install is a double (otherwise you could get a square taper crank and just bolt it on). The length and chainline alignment of a triple is different, and will not work properly with a double. As someone else suggested the BB is most likely BSA thread (or possibly Italian), and you will need the proper tools to remove the old one (which, of course, vary greatly between different brands, vintage and models). It might be worth it for you to have a good mechanic do the bottom bracket removal for you and do the rest of the build yourself.

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Honestly, ride the new bike and leave the old one as-is. Save your money. The old one is perfectly fine as it is. You are going to want to ride your Cervelo every chance you get anyway.

DamonRinard
in the industry
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Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

The bottom bracket interfaces two directions: (1) to the frame, and (2) to the crank.

Frame:
Your Windsor frame's bottom bracket shell is English threaded, so you need a BB with English threads.

Crank:
Your existing BB is square taper, but to install the Shimano crank you need a HollowTech II BB.

What to buy:
Buy a Shimano 105 BB, English threaded (not Italian threaded).

What to do:
Remove your existing BB and install the Shimano BB. Then install the Shimano crank. Shimano's service instructions are pretty clear how to do that.

Tools:
As was mentioned, unless you want to buy BB tools for the old BB, you might want to have a shop remove the old BB (and install the new one, why not) then do the crank and everything else yourself.
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

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BRM
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by BRM

AJS914 wrote:Honestly, ride the new bike and leave the old one as-is. Save your money. The old one is perfectly fine as it is. You are going to want to ride your Cervelo every chance you get anyway.


Its the only good advice here.

DamenH85
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Location: Houston, TX

by DamenH85

joshuagull wrote:I'm mechanically inclined enough to handle *most* of the build, but the pesky bottom bracket stuff is still a bit of a mystery to me. I know it's a sealed cartridge unit on there right now--square mount I think--just not sure how to fit something like the 105 5800 crankset on there like I'm familiar with the PF30/BBright adapters for the Cervelo. Sealed cartridge bottom brackets are a total mystery to me.


I did a similar sort of thing to my Allez. Removed the triple, along with the square taper BB, and replaced with a HollowTechII BB for Ultegra 6800. I have a few pictures of the process, maybe they'll be of help. Previously, I'd not worked on a bike either.

Tool = Park Tool CCP-22. Took a fair bit of force to break loose, thanks to my lack of maintenance and cleaning, no doubt.

Image
Image

To remove the actual threaded, square-taper BB, I used an impact gun and Park Tool BBT-22 "socket" to break it loose and unscrew.
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New BB
Image

I painted the bike gold. This is a close-up before installation
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Park Tool BBT-9 for installation, after greasing threads
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Done!
Image

damen

joshuagull
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:09 pm

by joshuagull

Great stuff guys! Damon and Damen especially, thank you guys!

Damen, did you take the old frame down to the metal before painting?

AJS, your advice is solid and what I should do for sure--it's the logical and practical thing--but I find that hobbies are rarely practical and logical. I kind of just want a project. There's a day or two every week or two where I'm not going to be going out with the intent to ride fast at all and where I may be leaving my bike chained up outside of a restaurant or shop out of site for a longer period of time. I don't want to do that with the Cervelo, and as silly as it might be, I'd like my gearing between the two bikes to match (50/34 + 11-28) for muscle memory purposes (and since the Windsor will be parked on the trainer when not casually spinning around town). Plus it gives me a platform to wrench on and learn on even further.

McNamara
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Location: Dallas, TX

by McNamara

I second the upgrade idea. It will probably be fun and you'll definitely learn a lot. I also upgraded an Allez (not nearly as complete an overhaul as Damen did though). I merely wanted to change the cockpit so I installed a new handlebar and shifters. It forced me to learn how to replace shift/brake cables and properly adjust derailleurs. It didn't really add to the performance of the bike, but I was pleased with the ergonomics, aesthetics, and the sense of achievement.

Personally, I leave things like bottom brackets to the shop. If a job requires me to purchase expensive tools that I probably won't ever need again, I'll pay someone else to do it. Although I always appreciate the "how I put this together" posts!

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Ok, do the crankset so things match. Source some bargains on ebay. That frame is probably not worth throwing a whole group set at just for the hell of it. Take it from someone who has gone down the path of upgrading old bikes only to hardly ever ride them... :D



joshuagull wrote:AJS, your advice is solid and what I should do for sure--it's the logical and practical thing--but I find that hobbies are rarely practical and logical. I kind of just want a project. There's a day or two every week or two where I'm not going to be going out with the intent to ride fast at all and where I may be leaving my bike chained up outside of a restaurant or shop out of site for a longer period of time. I don't want to do that with the Cervelo, and as silly as it might be, I'd like my gearing between the two bikes to match (50/34 + 11-28) for muscle memory purposes (and since the Windsor will be parked on the trainer when not casually spinning around town). Plus it gives me a platform to wrench on and learn on even further.

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

Too often people rave about a new bike when what they're really reacting to is the wheels and the group set. Nothing wrong with upgrading as long as you have the right expectations and aren't simply chasing every release that comes out from Shimano, Campy or SRAM.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels

joshuagull
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:09 pm

by joshuagull

Definitely not. The Cervelo will be "the" bike for a LONG time--hopefully a decade or more. The Windsor will just be a beater to have fun and wrench on. I'm not interested in chasing the best or latest/greatest "upgrades." My car has 230,000+ miles on it. I tend to use things until they're used up, and the Cervelo is already at the point I want it to be forever. So that leaves wrenching on the old Windsor to keep me interested in the tech/gear side of the hobby.

Alternative is to just get a cheaper cross bike. But getting any kind of other bike is going to be more costly than putting a few bucks into the Windsor as I go along.

by Weenie


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BRM
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by BRM

You have a cheap ass no name bike with some mixed components, but its working ok.
Why spend money on it? If it was a top frame it would be different. But thats not the case.
With a new Shimano 105 group, things dont change really. It only cost you money.
at the end. . . . you will still have a simple cheap ass no name bike with a plain budget group.
Save your money for things that are really worth.

You already have the perfect bike for where you want to use it for.

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