Not much WWism going on here these days

[Leviathan]

What pisses me off is the thread asking what to buy: SRAM Red vs DA, C60 vs F8, etc. Get out of here.

seconded. But worse is the "what color bar tape" which the only reasonable response is to beat the poster with a sticky stick. But it's sad that the true artists of Dremmel and cf have gone the way of toe straps.

[xena]

What pisses me off is the thread asking what to buy: SRAM Red vs DA, C60 vs F8, etc. Get out of here.

seconded. But worse is the "what color bar tape" which the only reasonable response is to beat the poster with a sticky stick. But it's sad that the true artists of Dremmel and cf have gone the way of toe straps.

Unless I missed something in your thread then a lot of posts must have passed you by. There has been plenty of tuning going on. OK it usually is red rear mech,s but other stuff has cropped up and don't forget we had FAST DAD on the site for a while as well The king of tuning besides myself

[RyanH]

Before I would've said go try and climb a hill and the weight saving will be noticed. But after last weekends climb.. I'm not so sure.

Same climb, just two week apart, same more temps & slight headwinds:

I did with my Addict R1 (14.5#, 52/36 QXL, 11/32) was 47min 12 sec.
Last weekend with my BMC TMR01 (17# w/ profile design RM1 cages, 52/36 QXL, 12/30) was 46mins 55 sec.

Sure it's not a big difference, but I was surprised by it. Now I'm not so sure if weight plays a big difference. So gonna go back Sunday and climb with my Scott again and see if I can be even faster than BMC.

Without a power meter, taking into account atmospheric conditions and a good understanding of actual wind speed, those results are not very meanginful (don't mean that in an offensive way). In my aero thread, I ran a calc on a 40 minute climb comparing various weights:

Running a quick calc on an approximately 40 minute long climb near me, with a CdA of 0.36, 300w output, total weight of 78kg, 5% grade and 13.6794km long, the estimated time breakdown by weight would be:

KG 78.00 78.50 79.00 79.50 80.00
KPH 21.37 21.28 21.19 21.10 21.02
Min 38.41 38.57 38.73 38.89 39.05

So, adding 2kg, which is the difference between a UCI legal bike and some of the lighter bikes on this forum, would result in a little over 30s slower. But, let's put that into context, just a 1.5KPH headwind would erase the difference. For slow people, at 200w, it makes a bigger difference at a full minute.

When doing 40 minute climbs, I can do the same climb on the same bike at an RPE of 10 (or based on Heart Rate) multiple times and get much wider variations, even in the exact same atmospheric conditions (I would guesstimate a range of 39 to 42 minutes). If you check my aero thread, you'll notice my average heart rate for an hour varies between 140 and 155 depending on the day at a fixed wattage. Heart rate is not very useful, RPE is hard as well. I used to do 2x20 min intervals once a week at a targeted 300w. RPE for the first was 8/9 and RPE for the second was 9.5 or 10. A lot of days, I couldn't hold the targeted wattage for the second interval due to just generally being mentally tired from work.


Regarding everything else, this forum may be named Weight Weenies, but it's known as a data driven forum. A forum unique for industry folks providing input. There's some great threads back in the day by Zipp Engineers and others. That may have changed a bit over the years to be a little more subjective than before especially with some of those industry people being driven out or tired of dealing with banter from the subjective crowd.

[Lelandjt]

Did you not read the thread about peeps reducing and eliminating valve stems to achieve a couple grams of stupidity in the form of pain in the ass tire pump ups? I think WW is there but just passive aggressive.

Or its WWexit.

Exactly. Someone (me) does something weight and aero weenie and gets bashed for it on this forum. It's just not much of a weight weenie forum anymore.

P.S. The hidden valves are working fine and take maybe 20 extra seconds to pump up. I've perfected a technique of jumping into my bibs to get those 20 seconds back during the other part of my pre-ride preparation.

[kulivontot]

Weight weenieism makes me a little curmudgeonly for all new stuff. I've got my Addict down to about 13.7 pounds with Sram red and tubulars, but the thing is if I get a new bike, it's almost certainly going to be heavier unless I spend some major cash. With aero frames, handlebars, seatposts, direct mount brakes, and 11spd components, almost nothing transfers over. So you gotta start from scratch with a whole new set of upgrades or spend the cash up front to buy a stock WW bike.
The other side of this of course is that now you can get a 10spd sram red groupset for under $500 and a used sub 1000g frameset for next to nothing. What has me excited with new gear these days is these wide lightweight alloy tubeless clinchers and the associated tires that gets you a race-worthy wheelset without very few drawbacks.

[mdeth1313]

If it makes anyone feel better, I just got around to switching back to powercordz for my derailleurs - saved about 15g.

[Liggero]

yes, this turned more into new us riders with deep pockets, with rapha clothes, assos, expensive bikes that are average on build list, etc...

On the other hands, the WW of 10 years ago probed to be a bit useless, lot of very expensive bikes, very light, but they did not performed too well. it is not worth it, therefore the trend kinda disappeared.

[Kayrehn]

On the other hands, the WW of 10 years ago probed to be a bit useless, lot of very expensive bikes, very light, but they did not performed too well. it is not worth it, therefore the trend kinda disappeared.

I think many will disagree that light bikes do not perform too well. For example, speed wobble of the handlebars are often incorrectly attributed to the lightness of the bike, when in fact it's the body weight distribution that's the cause. Any clarification on the perceived ineffectiveness of light bikes?

[Calnago]

Most certainly a high speed speed wobble is one my biggest fears on a bike. And many things contribute to it. Weight distribution being just one. However, the lighter things get, the more prone to speed wobbles the whole thing becomes. At least that's what I perceive. Super light stuff simply is not as stable, all else being equal.

[donald]

I experience no speed wobble on my 7.38 lb. bike, and that is half the weight of most light bikes.

[Calnago]

No one is saying that light weight alone is going to cause a speed wobble. But you wouldn't catch me riding a sub 8lb bike at 50mph down ANY descent, be it technical or straight as an arrow.

[NiFTY]

As the system weight is what is descending and not the bike alone weight as a marker of stability seems ludicrous. That would assume that if a 7kg bike doesn't wobble and a 5kg bike does then a rider who gained 2kg over winter would no longer wobble on the 5kg bike.

Also equating weight and strength of the bike to not come apart on the downhill is, whilst possibly true in certain bikes build to the same care, certainly not a universal truth.

[Liggero]

On the other hands, the WW of 10 years ago probed to be a bit useless, lot of very expensive bikes, very light, but they did not performed too well. it is not worth it, therefore the trend kinda disappeared.

I think many will disagree that light bikes do not perform too well. For example, speed wobble of the handlebars are often incorrectly attributed to the lightness of the bike, when in fact it's the body weight distribution that's the cause. Any clarification on the perceived ineffectiveness of light bikes?

aluminium casettes that last 200Km? saddles for show, not to be seated on, 19mm tires... broken spokes, flexy chainrings, not worthy powercords. Powerless brakes. I bought all that, soted me money, did not performa better that heavier parts that actually worked.

Light per se, sure, it's better, but don't forget many times light means less reliable, or stupidly expensive.

[jimaizumi]

The problem here is that everybody is different in taste, profession and geographic location. We bark at those who come up with a very light bike built up with boutique parts, only to call him a snob via deep pockets. On the other hand, the other who shows his dremmel and cutting skills is applauded for their ability and diligence in taking an off the shelf product and turning it into a lightweight work of art.

Not all have a garage that can acomodate power tools. Others don't have unlimited income and thus find creative methods to shedding weight off of their bike. Toss that into a common community like WW and you often find a bitter round of verbal lobbing that becomes almost ridiculous.

I am guilty of my own argument. As much as I would love to dive into self-craftsmanship, I am a working professional and my living quarter restricts me from spending my time conjuring brilliant ways to modify my own equipment. So what do I do? I am patient, save every penny I have so that I can afford a LW item for my bike. Does that make me a snob?

I am perfectly happy indulging into boutique parts.... Because I don't want to be in a position where I have to stock my apartment with industrial equipment just to shave off a few grams.

[racingcondor]

I'll have to post my Condor.

It's an old Leggero so a pretty chubby frame by both Weight Weenies and modern standards (around 1,150g) but I'm aiming to get it <7kg shortly which while it's not light isn't bad for a bike built around that frame, SRAM Force and Alu wheels.

My plan is <7kg including a power meter, no compromises for durability or functionality and without spending huge amounts. The durability/functionality requirement is limiting me to DA hubs and stock brakes (each of which cost me 100g vs light options but work year round and last forever). The next weight saving will probably be building a lighter wheelset (I'll aim for around 1,100g and finally move to carbon rims).

It's not drilling parts or a sub 4kg bike but it is an incremental improvement project for a bike that rides like I was born on it.