Corima MCC 47 S+ versus Lightweight Meilenstein

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eeefn7
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by eeefn7

Both are good. But the final choice is corima

by Weenie


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DavidMLee
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by DavidMLee

Isn't Corima MCC's spoke adjustable?

LW's spoke tension CANNOT be adjusted.. so to me, Corima wins.
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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

DavidMLee wrote:Isn't Corima MCC's spoke adjustable?

LW's spoke tension CANNOT be adjusted.. so to me, Corima wins.


No, Corima spokes are bonded and not adjustable.

You can adjust the rear spokes on the Mavic CCU, but this does not make them the best wheel.....

sawyer
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by sawyer

kgt wrote:I can see what Calnago means when saying that a wider rim or a wider tire is more stable than a narrower one but this is just how they feel. It's not that there is an actual stability issue with a narrower rim or tire.
A heavy wheelset would also feel more stable than a lightweight one. That does not mean the heavier is better.


If they are feel more stable, isn't that in practice the same the thing as being more stable?

Interesting that track cyclists still use narrow rims and tyres, which supports the idea that at low yaw narrow/narrow is faster, at least as far as drag is concerned
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kgt
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by kgt

Maybe but that does not mean the most 'stable' is always the best. Frames with longer wheelbases or long chainstays feel more stable too. That does not mean anything by itself.
Your track cycling example is correct. Of course, in lower yaw angles the narrower the better. Especially when the riding surface is perfectly smooth.



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zappafile123
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by zappafile123

cyclespeed wrote:Lightweight Meilenstein review here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDgf1o01BsQ


Thanks for the video.

I wonder if LW have any plans for bringing their rims into the modern (aero) era? I could swear I've heard that they've opted for the v-shape construction for achieving the ultra-low weight and that its very hard to make a *light* blunt nose rim with integrated spokes. I guess width doesnt matter so much for tubs, but wide, round-nosed (actually aero) lightweight clinchers would be just about the ultimate wheelset on the market.

Its interesting that you found the wheels not to be ultra-stiff. I had the belief that they were one of the stiffest wheelsets you could get. But its a good thing not to be uncompromisingly stiff - it part of the reason I thought Mavic CCU's were a little crappy.

Finally what about cross wind performance? Many guys have said they border on being dangerous in strong cross-winds....
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DavidMLee
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by DavidMLee

Looking forward to your review, also.

I prefer LW's look, but from what I heard MCC is better in terms of durability since its spoke can be adjusted.
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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

zappafile123 wrote:
cyclespeed wrote:Lightweight Meilenstein review here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDgf1o01BsQ


Thanks for the video.

I wonder if LW have any plans for bringing their rims into the modern (aero) era? I could swear I've heard that they've opted for the v-shape construction for achieving the ultra-low weight and that its very hard to make a *light* blunt nose rim with integrated spokes. I guess width doesnt matter so much for tubs, but wide, round-nosed (actually aero) lightweight clinchers would be just about the ultimate wheelset on the market.

Its interesting that you found the wheels not to be ultra-stiff. I had the belief that they were one of the stiffest wheelsets you could get. But its a good thing not to be uncompromisingly stiff - it part of the reason I thought Mavic CCU's were a little crappy.

Finally what about cross wind performance? Many guys have said they border on being dangerous in strong cross-winds....


Personally, I think the aero difference in a wider rim is negligible. Any small gain in Cd is offset by the increase in surface area. In any case, any difference is going to be immeasurably small, even in a lab. In the real world with constantly changing wind speeds and directions, forget it.

But if you like riding wider tyres, then maybe it's a better fit. A 25mm tyre will aero-integrate better into a wide rim like a Zipp 303. I tried 25mm's and didn't really like them, so I'm fine on 23's although I'm only 63kg.

Why clinchers? They are inferior to tubs in every way; price, weight, ride and braking. OK, so you get the convenience of tyres and tubes, but when you're used to using tubs, it's absolutely fine.

As for stiffness, it's not just me - they were tested by a big French magazine recently, and whilst giving good results, were not the stiffest (Corima MCC's were). I reckon that the LW's have just the right blend of stiffness and ride quality.

As for crosswinds, I ride the LW's all year round in Majorca and a windy part of France (Brittany). I have never had any concerns and I'm not heavy. Sure the wheels can twitch a bit if there's a crosswind, but it's never anything to worry about. I actually found the blunt nosed Corimas a touch more sensitive to sidewinds. The Mavic CCU's are a non-issue as they have shallower rims.

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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

DavidMLee wrote:Looking forward to your review, also.

I prefer LW's look, but from what I heard MCC is better in terms of durability since its spoke can be adjusted.


Just to say that I already have video reviews for both these wheels (http://www.cyclespeedtours.com/blog).

The MCC's cannot be adjusted (at least not the 47mm model) as the carbon spokes are bonded to rim and hub.

The only full carbon wheelset that has some adjustment is the Mavic CCU at the rear, but rumour has it that this is because they couldn't mould them straight......(but they are excellent wheels, I have a pair and like them!)

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zappafile123
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by zappafile123

I think there is a tangible difference in perceived speed maintenance between an aero optimised and a v-shaped rim. E.g. Xentis, Hed and Zipps just felt faster than Fulcrum XLRs/Bora ultras or Mavic CCUs/SLs. When I say faster I mean it feels easier to hold higher speeds >35km/h. Though I must admit all the former are at least 8-18 mm deeper than the latter options.

I agree about tubs - they feel way nicer. Though I couldnt get over the niggling thought in the back of my mind "what if I get a flat"...

Perhaps all the people who complain about crosswind performance just didnt give it time to get used to how they handle. I had no issues with Fulcrums/Bora's, but the Mavic SLs were really bad.
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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

zappafile123 wrote:I think there is a tangible difference in perceived speed maintenance between an aero optimised and a v-shaped rim. E.g. Xentis, Hed and Zipps just felt faster than Fulcrum XLRs/Bora ultras or Mavic CCUs/SLs. When I say faster I mean it feels easier to hold higher speeds >35km/h. Though I must admit all the former are at least 8-18 mm deeper than the latter options.

I agree about tubs - they feel way nicer. Though I couldnt get over the niggling thought in the back of my mind "what if I get a flat"...

Perhaps all the people who complain about crosswind performance just didnt give it time to get used to how they handle. I had no issues with Fulcrums/Bora's, but the Mavic SLs were really bad.


Interesting points, but you have to compare like with like. One would expect deeper rims to be more aero. My opinion is that there is not much aero difference between any of the 45-50mm wheels, especially when you consider that people will be fitting all sorts of different size tyres to them (anything from 22 to 28mm) which will alter aero properties.

Tub punctures are pretty rare I find - I ride 15 000km/year and get 1 maybe 2 per year, but these are only because I'm stretching the mileage to the max in the rear. If I change them in time, they're pretty puncture proof. Otherwise I take a can of foam with me, which will fix about 75% of punctures. Then it's telephone to the wife!

The wind has to be really strong for me to worry about crosswind effects, I'm talking 70 to 80km/h+

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kgt
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by kgt

Good posts-comments by cyclespeed. I totally agree.

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FMB51
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by FMB51

This thread has been great! CycleSpeed, your reviews and comments have been very well thought out and reasoned. I have to admit, I am not much closer to deciding myself between the Corima MCC's and the Meilensteins. I have a pair of the 47mm Corima S+ and have been happy with them. That being said, I have always wanted a pair of the LW's...

Whatever I decide, this will be my fourth wheel set (entirely unnecessary). I have:

Corima 47MM S+ (tubular)

Campagnolo Bora Ultra 2 (tubular)

ENVE Classic 25 / CX-Ray. R45 (tubular) - built these myself - my winter wheels

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