ENVE SES 4.5 or Lightweight???
Moderator: robbosmans
I see, so they fixed a hub issue. You wrote 're-true' so I thought there was a kind of spoke issue.
Of course, in the case of an accident a full carbon wheel is more vulnerable. But I guess the durability of a product is judged by its normal use and not during an accident. That's the same with carbon frames. They can break in cases where a steel frame would just get a dent.
Of course, in the case of an accident a full carbon wheel is more vulnerable. But I guess the durability of a product is judged by its normal use and not during an accident. That's the same with carbon frames. They can break in cases where a steel frame would just get a dent.
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kgt wrote:I see, so they fixed a hub issue. You wrote 're-true' so I thought there was a kind of spoke issue.
Of course, in the case of an accident a full carbon wheel is more vulnerable. But I guess the durability of a product is judged by its normal use and not during an accident. That's the same with carbon frames. They can break in cases where a steel frame would just get a dent.
No, they 'fixed' a hub issue (on the front) by replacing the front wheel. They fixed an 'out of true' issue on the rear, by re-truing the rear wheel. Hence I wrote 're-true'.
I disagree. Durability is relevant in an accident. If one wheel is more likely to survive an accident, it is more durable. This is a relevant consideration when buying a wheel or anything else. I have both sets of wheels as I said. I'm not criticising LW. They are great wheels. They just have different strengths / weaknesses in comparison to the ENVEs.
da123 wrote:I disagree. Durability is relevant in an accident. If one wheel is more likely to survive an accident, it is more durable.
In my experience for parts to survive an accident it takes more luck than durability. a few weeks ago I was involved in an accident, there were 3 broken frames/forks and only one broken wheel which just happened to be an ENVE, my cheap PX wheels survived with a chip in the carbon surface.
Does this make my PX wheels better than ENVEs, of course not.
AZK wrote:da123 wrote:I disagree. Durability is relevant in an accident. If one wheel is more likely to survive an accident, it is more durable.
In my experience for parts to survive an accident it takes more luck than durability. a few weeks ago I was involved in an accident, there were 3 broken frames/forks and only one broken wheel which just happened to be an ENVE, my cheap PX wheels survived with a chip in the carbon surface.
Does this make my PX wheels better than ENVEs, of course not.
But that is flawed logic. You all experienced the accident in different ways. Presumably if your PX wheels had been on the bike with the ENVE wheels, they would probably have broken too. Also, I'm not saying that ENVE wheels are 'better' than LWs because in exactly the same accident they have a better chance of surviving, I'm simply saying it is one factor you might consider in choosing between the two. If I wanted a wheel to race on where crashes were likely, I wouldn't choose the LWs. I actually think the LWs are a 'better' wheel, judged on the criteria that are important to me. I don't road race, so crash survival is less of an issue.
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Isn't there a video on Youtube somewhere of a guy jumping on a LW wheel laid on the ground? Or is that a Mavic CCU, can't remember!
i had both. i still have both...but ride on the Enve 4.5.
why? people say that the LW are durable. i rode my LW for less than 500 miles. cracked on pothole. crash replacement from LW but not eager to ride them. i was always looking out for potholes...then one day...i could avoid one since it was a huge a wide one going downhill. pop. i have to say one thing...that i rode on the cracked rim for another 50 miles until i made it home. no issues. it held up despite being cracked. the Enve 4.5s...i've hit similar potholes. i even crashed once with them. got caught in a pileup where the front wheel hit others in front...unavoidable crash. the wheel was still true and riding well. no issues. i can say the same with my 3.4s as well. thousands of miles. no issues.
why? people say that the LW are durable. i rode my LW for less than 500 miles. cracked on pothole. crash replacement from LW but not eager to ride them. i was always looking out for potholes...then one day...i could avoid one since it was a huge a wide one going downhill. pop. i have to say one thing...that i rode on the cracked rim for another 50 miles until i made it home. no issues. it held up despite being cracked. the Enve 4.5s...i've hit similar potholes. i even crashed once with them. got caught in a pileup where the front wheel hit others in front...unavoidable crash. the wheel was still true and riding well. no issues. i can say the same with my 3.4s as well. thousands of miles. no issues.
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da123 wrote:AZK wrote:da123 wrote:I disagree. Durability is relevant in an accident. If one wheel is more likely to survive an accident, it is more durable.
In my experience for parts to survive an accident it takes more luck than durability. a few weeks ago I was involved in an accident, there were 3 broken frames/forks and only one broken wheel which just happened to be an ENVE, my cheap PX wheels survived with a chip in the carbon surface.
Does this make my PX wheels better than ENVEs, of course not.
But that is flawed logic. You all experienced the accident in different ways. Presumably if your PX wheels had been on the bike with the ENVE wheels, they would probably have broken too. Also, I'm not saying that ENVE wheels are 'better' than LWs because in exactly the same accident they have a better chance of surviving, I'm simply saying it is one factor you might consider in choosing between the two. If I wanted a wheel to race on where crashes were likely, I wouldn't choose the LWs. I actually think the LWs are a 'better' wheel, judged on the criteria that are important to me. I don't road race, so crash survival is less of an issue.
Yes the PX would of broke if it was on the bike that had the ENVE, that's my point. You clearly understand my 'flawed logic' since you agree with it yourself.
You summarized that 'If one wheel is more likely to survive an accident, it is more durable' I merely said its got more to do with luck.
I agree with everything else you said.
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cyclespeed wrote:Isn't there a video on Youtube somewhere of a guy jumping on a LW wheel laid on the ground? Or is that a Mavic CCU, can't remember!
I remember that video -- it was the Mavic CCU. The guy was jumping on the spokes while the wheel was laying on its side.
I've had 5 sets of LWs, never had a single issue...i use them year round...they've been on salted roads, huge pot holes, gravel, rain, etc., and they're still perfect (no accidents though -- knock on wood). Only maintenance is do is a wipedown of the brake track with acetone, and the occasional cleaning/regreasing of the ratchets.
comparing Enve versus Lightweight is seriously Apples versus Oranges.. This forum goes through the same argument over and over again... I don't think you can compare a full carbon constructed wheels to a built carbon hoop with normal spokes and nipples.. They're not even in the same price category...
Lightweight wheels can be ridden daily, but it's obvious that they're special event kind of wheels. I know guys who daily them, and I also know guys who daily drive 991 GT3 Porsche cars and Ferrari 488GTB's. Consider the Enve the BMW M3 of the wheels and Lightweight the Ferrari 488GTB. They both can get a round the track in about the same time, but they're entirely different cars.
Lightweight wheels can be ridden daily, but it's obvious that they're special event kind of wheels. I know guys who daily them, and I also know guys who daily drive 991 GT3 Porsche cars and Ferrari 488GTB's. Consider the Enve the BMW M3 of the wheels and Lightweight the Ferrari 488GTB. They both can get a round the track in about the same time, but they're entirely different cars.
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Denavelo wrote:comparing Enve versus Lightweight is seriously Apples versus Oranges.. This forum goes through the same argument over and over again... I don't think you can compare a full carbon constructed wheels to a built carbon hoop with normal spokes and nipples.. They're not even in the same price category...
Lightweight wheels can be ridden daily, but it's obvious that they're special event kind of wheels. I know guys who daily them, and I also know guys who daily drive 991 GT3 Porsche cars and Ferrari 488GTB's. Consider the Enve the BMW M3 of the wheels and Lightweight the Ferrari 488GTB. They both can get a round the track in about the same time, but they're entirely different cars.
Great analagy