ENVE SES 4.5 or Lightweight???

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jerrybrabus

by jerrybrabus

I want to build a new bike and i need to know more opinions.
Thank you in advance to all
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mrgray
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by mrgray

i think Enve SES 4.5 gives better aero performance. LW Meilenstein (say) is lighter and maybe stiffer but not as aero.

If you ride solo or for leisure I'd recommend the LW. If racing I'd recommend the Enve SES. However main thing is to do with what you think looks the most exciting.

Also Boras are pretty neat with great hubs (say Ultra). I have some 80 mm Bora Dark Ultra and they are very nice wheels and really look awesome. Second hand Boras go for a great discount on new price.
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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

At the end of the day, the Enves are just another 45mm (ish) rim laced to a decent hub with normal spokes. Everyone does this, it's pretty standard stuff and if anyone can honestly tell me they can feel the aero difference between two sets of 40 to 50mm wheels then I would be extremely surprised.

Lightweights are a completely different kettle of fish. Full carbon construction with spokes bonded and tensioned during the autoclave process, you just can't compare the two.

If you want to spend big money on wheels, in my opinion, the Lightweights are special. The Enves are not. Take off the Enve badge and they could be from any of about 20 manufacturers out there.

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

From what I've heard the Milstein's are way more expensive. Hard to justify in my opinion.
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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

fromtrektocolnago wrote:From what I've heard the Milstein's are way more expensive. Hard to justify in my opinion.


In the UK I'm seeing over £2500 for the Enve's which is big money for fairly basic technology and not that much cheaper than LWs.

sd5500
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by sd5500

Love my 4.5s! I got a great deal on a set with the Enve hubs. I've raced them very hard on some rough road crits this year and they are still perfectly true. Personally, I like the fact that I can have them locally re-laced if need be. Enve has great customer service as well.

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ianSWBB
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by ianSWBB

The ENVEs are very good - stiff and aero - a great option that won't disappoint!

But the LWs are another class on entirely - everything that the ENVEs offer but with less weight and so feel significantly quicker!
If you get the Schwarz version with the Ceramic Speed bearings, you can't even feel the wheels going round!!! Every time you press on the pedals, it's just instant acceleration :D

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

They are apples and oranges. Enve is optimized for aerodynamics with weight being secondary. If you look at Lightweight rim profiles they are "V" shaped. That is because a "V" shaped rim uses the least amount of materials for a given rim height. Only time will tell if Lightweight will come out with a toroidal shaped rim. My Bora 50s are also "V" shaped but at least a lot rounder than the Lightweight "V" which has perfectly straight sides. I'm not saying that either is bad, just that they took different approaches to build their wheels for different characteristics.

mimason
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by mimason

As long as we are full disclosure ask yourself about crosswinds and gusty conditions when deciding as well as replacement parts, repairs and warranty issues...there is a significant difference with this comparison.

critRacer03
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by critRacer03

I am not sure if you are looking for performance or just expensive wheels?
The lw:s targets a less price sensitive rider for sure... :-)

Denavelo
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by Denavelo

you can compare Enve to any random wheel company, but I value their high level customer service. They replaced my failing brake track rims with 4.5 Tubular hoops under warranty. I had a set of old 45 Clinchers, and these new 4.5 wheels are simply amazing.

I would buy your wheels based on what and where you ride. On my old 45 clinchers, I had so many moments of getting my front blown sideways leaning in a turn on a descent. Ever since I went to the 4.5 I no longer get that nice little scary surprise. The new wide rims are just more stable, but nothing a little bike control couldn't handle.

I still want a set of lightweight wheels, just to see the hype...
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da123
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by da123

I have the tubular 4.5s built on Tune hubs (1270 the pair) and the meilenstein Obermayers (schwarz ed, 950 grams)

They are quite different feeling wheels. The ENVEs are faster on the flat and downhill. They handle crosswinds better. Climbing is okay. Braking is reasonable.

The LWs have a more sprightly feel. They are materially better on climbs and accelerate better. They ride a bit better (even with 23s rather than 25s). They also brake much better. They are a stiffer wheel than the ENVEs, but there's not a huge amount in it. Crosswinds can be scary.

The LWs are a more 'special' feeling wheel, however they are more fragile. You can't user service them. The ceramicspeed bearings are smooth, but both my front and rear bearings died and had to be replaced. The front wheel has also been replaced under warranty, and the rear had to go back to Germany to be re-trued (under warranty again). No quibbles from LW, but don't expect them to be bombproof.

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kgt
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by kgt

da123 wrote:The LWs are a more 'special' feeling wheel, however they are more fragile.

LWs are less repairable, we agree, but what do you mean by 'more fragile'? In what terms?

da123 wrote:The front wheel has also been replaced under warranty, and the rear had to go back to Germany to be re-trued (under warranty again). No quibbles from LW, but don't expect them to be bombproof.

What does re-trued mean? LWs cannot be trued or re-trued. Did they reconstruct the wheelset for you?
I don't agree that LWs are not bombproof. Maybe Obermayer are the 'less bombproof' (90kg weight limit) but regular Meilenstein have a 110kg limit and are suitable for cyclocross as well. I doubt Enves can be recommended for cx.

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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

My LWs went back to Germany for a tiny amount of play in the front hub that made them 'buzz' when I pedalled out of the saddle.

They said that they re-trued them too, even though I hadn't noticed them out of true. I suspect they have some kind of wheel press? It seems they can also relayer the brake track if required.

And I just had my LBS replace 2 bearings in the rear, but this is after over 30 000km.

So not bombproof, but perfectly acceptable, and I love them!

da123
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by da123

kgt wrote:
da123 wrote:The LWs are a more 'special' feeling wheel, however they are more fragile.

LWs are less repairable, we agree, but what do you mean by 'more fragile'? In what terms?

da123 wrote:The front wheel has also been replaced under warranty, and the rear had to go back to Germany to be re-trued (under warranty again). No quibbles from LW, but don't expect them to be bombproof.

What does re-trued mean? LWs cannot be trued or re-trued. Did they reconstruct the wheelset for you?
I don't agree that LWs are not bombproof. Maybe Obermayer are the 'less bombproof' (90kg weight limit) but regular Meilenstein have a 110kg limit and are suitable for cyclocross as well. I doubt Enves can be recommended for cx.


All I know is that the rear had gone out of true quite noticeably. The bearings had also clearly gone in the front wheel. I sent both wheels back to LW. They replaced the front, saying that when they looked at the bearings they found a more serious issue with the hub which meant it needed replacing. They did not replace the rear, but they did something to it which put it back in true. So I disagree, they clearly can be re-trued. How they do it, I've no idea.

The hub flanges (well probably not accurate to call them flanges, but you know what I mean) are very thin carbon and are quite easily damaged. The side walls are similarly more susceptible to side impact damage. This isn't a criticism. The wheels are silly light and there's a reason for that. You just need to take more care of them. By way of comparison, I had an accident recently when the guy riding alongside me went down a pothole, came off and hit me, pushing me sideways into the kerb. My wheels ran along the kerb for 10 metres or so before I also came off. There were big gouges out of the carbon flanks and the brake track, but otherwise the wheels were fine. This was my ENVEs. I don't think the LWs would have survived the same accident.

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