tour mag aero tests a pinarello dogma and .....

[kgt]

By traditional I mean that it looks like many other contemporary frames.

I love this sentence
Anyway, I think you have an entirely legitimate question as to how Pinarello have got there through a slightly different route to Spesh, Scott etc, but you're hugely overstating the difference in the essential design elements, and inadvertently focussing - somewhat ironically - on different marketing strategies ...

That's my assumption more or less.
It seems that there are two completely different routes. Pinarello procceded through a 'fine tuning' of the shape and sections of the tubes while companies like Specialized, Scott or Cervelo have a more 'radical' approach to design.
I have not seen another (proved) aero frame that looks so much like a 'normal' frame other than the F8. It seems that the guys at Pinarello - and Jaguar - are the first to make it, that's why I find it so interesting.

[cyclespeed]

Doesn't 'look' especially aero...!

This is a client's bike in Majorca.

[ichobi]

I signed up for that course. Its quite comprehensive for science noobs like me but did learn a lot for sure. Fun course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GT56]

when will these (type of) tests quantify the effect of the harshness (or relative lack of ) a bike on the level of fatigue it causes to its rider, after all, cycling also is about endurance

[2lo8]

You still haven't said why the S5 looks more aero than the F8 except for the wheel cutout, and the marketing around it. Wheel cutouts offer poor returns relative to how visually striking they are. But at least they look aero.

The Madone also doesn't have a wheel cutout, and the seat cluster may very well be compromised in order to get the IsoSpeed decoupling to work, which is still probably worth it to them because they can market themselves as the comfortable aero bike. It doesn't have the downtube behind the fork like the F8 and other aero bikes. I've seen arguments against cutouts like the Venge in the downtube and the seat tube. They are visually striking, but don't offer as much benefit as it would seem because of the skin friction of the tires moving air into them. They're very integrated, but all that shows is extreme integration has increasingly marginal returns, which would be why previous versions weren't as integrated. They're also still faster than the F8.

Extreme integration is extremely marketable though. It looks cool, it's something to talk about to the customer, and it convinces you they went all out. It also looks aero. Just like the older bottom bracket brakes with questionable benefits. You can sell these things better to tech junkies the more visual features you can point out. If you want to market your frame as the most advanced thing on the market, it helps to look advanced and differentiate yourself from a normal bike. On the other hand, the old Foil was not a bad performer, and it had even fewer aero features than the F8, despite being marketed as an aero bike. There are several other aero bikes that lack many of the aero features of the F8 as well.

[sawyer]

@2to8 - agreed re the cut-outs. Other manufacturers have said similar things in the past. Look's 576/596 had a large gap between ST and tyre and the 796 continues this as a specific aero design feature. I suspect there isn't evidence of clear net aero benefit one way or another and, as you say, cut-outs look cool/aero and sell

[LionelB]

Talking about the F8.... Curious of how this version would compare handling wise to the "heavy" one that I find perfect.

[BRM]

Personally I see it as terrible annoying when people start mixing other subjects in a discussion.

When you want to discuss the F8, choose the right topic or open a new one.
This topic is not about the F8 but about Aero and F8, nothing more nothing less.

[fa63]

I admitted from the start that I have not a clue on F8's aerodynamics while you think you have. It seems though that your contribution to the thread was just links to Pinarello's adverising. So clever, wow!

Anyway I do not care about general theories on airflows, the bike as a system etc. etc. but specific answers related to F8's design. I will not insist. End of thread.

I posted this TWO DAYS ago:
[Quote=fa63]
Part 1 to your question is the truncated aero profile tubing on the frame, as I previously posted. Also, from the picture you posted (and if you had read the article I linked to), you can see how the fork/headtube area has been designed with aero in mind, like the Cervelo S5. And last but not least, the F8 has a aero seatpost, also like the S5.

And I posted the bit about 300 hours of CFD analysis to make a point that the F8 is far from a "traditional" frame.[/quote]

I thought that was pretty specific. You conceded with another poster when he made the same points later on. Maybe you could actually read what is being posted.

[LionelB]

Personally I see it as terrible annoying when people start mixing other subjects in a discussion.

When you want to discuss the F8, choose the right topic or open a new one.
This topic is not about the F8 but about Aero and F8, nothing more nothing less.

Get real man, this topic is going in complete circles. A few post ago in his good post 2lo8 mentioned "It's not like the F8 is an ultra-light 700g frame.". So now we have a 780g F8 aero bike. Seems pretty *f##k* OT to me

[BRM]

You are not a wise man.

[spdntrxi]

Talking about the F8.... Curious of how this version would compare handling wise to the "heavy" one that I find perfect.

now I like the F8.. or should I say F8XLight. how much does a madone 9 weigh again.

Please have direct mount brakes (looks like it does not) ! Tell me more about this frame.

[kgt]

Although 780gr @ 53 is not exactly superlight this frame needs some more tuning (what's this stem-bar combo btw?) and it might turn into something amazing.

[LionelB]

Although 780gr @ 53 is not exactly superlight this frame needs some more tuning (what's this stem-bar combo btw?) and it might turn into something amazing.

780g with a threaded BB is pretty good, and I like threaded BB. MOST bar/stem combo (not light but excellent, I have the previous gen).

[fa63]

Let's keep in mind those are claimed weights from an Italian company, who don't have a good track record when it comes to accuracy of such claims It will probably heavier in reality.