Campagnolo SR/Record/Chorus 2014 shifters & pre-2014 crankset: experiences?

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neeb
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by neeb

The 2014+ shifters and dérailleurs are supposed to be compatible with the pre-2014 crankset, providing some increased front-shifting performance over pre-2014, but not as much as when paired with the 2014+ crankset.

Just wondering if anyone has had experience of all three setups, i.e. pre-2014 crank plus shifters/dérailleurs, pre-2014 crank plus 2014+ shifters/dérailleurs, and the full 2014+ crank plus shifters/dérailleurs.

Basically, what percentage of the total improvement do you get with the 2014+ shifters and dérailleurs alone? I would have thought that the new longer arm dérailleur mechanism and changed pull ratio would make the biggest difference, and that the extra stiffness of the new crankset would be less significant.

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phlip
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by phlip

Was it not 2015 that Chorus, Record, and Super Record have been updated?

sawyer
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by sawyer

neeb wrote:The 2014+ shifters and dérailleurs are supposed to be compatible with the pre-2014 crankset, providing some increased front-shifting performance over pre-2014, but not as much as when paired with the 2014+ crankset.

Just wondering if anyone has had experience of all three setups, i.e. pre-2014 crank plus shifters/dérailleurs, pre-2014 crank plus 2014+ shifters/dérailleurs, and the full 2014+ crank plus shifters/dérailleurs.

Basically, what percentage of the total improvement do you get with the 2014+ shifters and dérailleurs alone? I would have thought that the new longer arm dérailleur mechanism and changed pull ratio would make the biggest difference, and that the extra stiffness of the new crankset would be less significant.


Hi there

I do have experience of all three scenarios (mechanical only). I'm going to be heretical as I am a campag fan and say that it's all really marginal. The new crank for example has not tested as stiffer than the old crank. Both are good, and all things considered one of the best cranks on the market. It does look much better on a modern bike though.
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neeb
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by neeb

sawyer wrote:
Hi there

I do have experience of all three scenarios (mechanical only). I'm going to be heretical as I am a campag fan and say that it's all really marginal. The new crank for example has not tested as stiffer than the old crank. Both are good, and all things considered one of the best cranks on the market. It does look much better on a modern bike though.

Interesting, thanks! I'm toying with the idea of upgrading the shifters and dérailleurs but keeping the old crank. I actually like the look of the new crank and have always thought the old one looked a bit retro (this is on a Scott Foil), but upgrading that too would cost as much again as upgrading the shifters & dérailleurs..

But if the differences are marginal in all cases I'd be as well sticking with what I've got..

Front shifting does cause me issues sometimes (dropped chains). Also I do like the vaguely insectoid look of the newer rear DR!

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neeb
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by neeb

phlip wrote:Was it not 2015 that Chorus, Record, and Super Record have been updated?

Possibly.. Maybe it was the 2015 product range but released in 2014? I couldn't remember and read 2014 somewhere but it could have been a bad source..

thp
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by thp

No problems here setting friends 2015 fd/rd/shifters with 2014 cranks. Heck, when comparing to all 2015 setups, i can't really tell the diff in front shifting performance. I think its all in the FD.

phlip
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by phlip

Graeme wrote something insightful when I asked about 2015 and 2014 compatibility in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=138185:

graeme_f_k wrote:I know I am biased, doing for a living what I do ... but I think the 2015 mechanical shifting overall is very sharp, nearly as good as electronic.

For competition use, it seems to me like a worthwhile incriment against the 2014 and before 11s.

Provided that the four arm chainset is used, the new CH, RE or SR FD will make a noticeable difference to the front shift when paired with the matching levers - however, it's not just about the FD, the extra rigidity of the outer chainring offered by the four arm chainset plus the revised ramping and pinning on the chainrings all together are what make the difference.

If you want "better" but not "best" shifting, then go for a full 2015 Athena group, as the crankset runs the SC13 chainrings that form the basis, in terms of tooth profiles, ramps and pins of the four-arm chairings, but they lack the very high chainrng rigidity conferred by the four-arm crankset.

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BRM
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by BRM

neeb wrote:
phlip wrote:Was it not 2015 that Chorus, Record, and Super Record have been updated?

Possibly.. Maybe it was the 2015 product range but released in 2014? I couldn't remember and read 2014 somewhere but it could have been a bad source..




On the Campagnolo site under support you can find the brochures of last years.
Change from 5 arms crank to 4 arms is model 2015.

I think there is nothing changed in these 3 groups between 2011-2014
Only Overtorque crankset as extra option is introduced somewhere in these years.

964Cup
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by 964Cup

I'm running full 2015 SR with a 2013 (five-arm) SR Ti chainset. Clearance between the outside of the FD cage and the inside of the DS crankarm is tight; if you're not careful setting the limit screw, you can find the crank knocking the FD cage inward, leading to unexpected front downshifts. Once set properly, shifting quality is fine.

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by graeme_f_k

If you want the full skinny, it's this:

The shift improvements, regardless of ring / crankset / FD / shifter inter-mix are most noticeable on 50 x 34, least noticeable on 53 x 39.

Assuming 2015-> FD and shifter, Pre 2015 cranksets, if they have the new rings (SC13) will shift better especially under load - upshifting is a bit sharper, downshifting not so much but the control on the chain is better so chain drop is to all intent and purpose eliminated - sure, you can "make" it drop but you have to try really quite hard and do things that no-one in their right mind woulkd actually do in the real world.

I'm not sure whose testing sawyer is referring to when he says the 2015 crank sets don't test significantly more rigid than the pre 2015 cranksets - or how that stiffness is being defined. If it's the way that Campagnolo have defined it - in terms of outer chainring rigidity (not crank arm or crank / BB axle interface rigidity) on the shift zone then they probably need to get their instrumentation re-calibrated!

The rigidity of the outer chainring is one of the defining factors in front up-shift accuracy and efficiency - it was the reason for the 2012 chainring changes and what has driven Shimano, Campagnolo and several other makers towards the four arm design, placing the support for the chainring right behind the shift ramp & pin zones.

Downshift accuracy is improved as the FD is now in better control of the chain as it drops - hence the movement bar on lever 3 ... the cage itself is also differently shaped to the pre 2015 cage - the gate that the chain runs through is effectively narrower at the point it needs to be to correctly control the chain on downshift whilst having a more splayed shape "higher" in the cage so as to obviate the need for a "trim click" on the outer ring.

Campagnolo use a metric they call shifting fluency which looks at how the chain drops onto the teeth of the big ring on upshift, and how cleanly it engages the teeth of the small ring on downshift. This is a load-related test - after all, virtually any correctly set up system will perform these two actions quite satisfactorily all day long in the work stand with no load applied. The testing done with the teams and in the lab indicates that fluency under load is improved - that is to say, the tendency of the chain to ride the tops of the teeth on shift is reduced, allowing a good shift to be obtained with the same degree of error - at far higher torques on a complete 2015 system than on the previous systems. The crank set / ring combination has the greatest influence on this, especially on the 50 x 34 options. This also means that at lower torques, the shift is cleaner and more precise.

As ever, the best result comes from using the system in a fully integrated way but if I was going to change one thing, personally, it'd be the crankset as the big difference for me as a user is in upshift. The new FD / lever combo has it's greatest influence, in my experience, on downshift - I barely use the inside ring where I live & train so that's of lesser importance to me. Other users, though, will certainly have different priorities.
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sawyer
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by sawyer

HI Graeme, I had in mind the fairwheel test, though based on what you've said that might not capture the relevant dimensions of chainring stiffness

http://blog.fairwheelbikes.com/reviews- ... k-testing/

Nonetheless I would stand by my view that the real world impact of the changes is really marginal, perhaps there is a different perspective for daily users who can't have the bike perfectly set up all the time than there is for product testers who live and breathe the stuff and get excited about incremental improvements in the lab ... which is to say it was good before, and is still good ... :thumbup:
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Flapmeat
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by Flapmeat

I had 2015 shifters/ders and a 2014 52/36 crank the first half of this year, and just switched to the new 4 arm 53/39. I am going for the first ride later today, will post my experiences.

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neeb
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by neeb

Thanks all, great information! I must admit I do find the front shifting on my current setup less than excellent. More in the sense of consistency / reliability than anything else. If the new stuff offered detectably greater consistency and "set and forget" that would be welcome.

One issue I have is that the adjustment of the outer limit screw on the front DR has to be spot on to prevent over-throwing or underthrowing, and thus dropped chains... And it always seems to go out of adjustment! I read that the new RD now has hex screws at the back to adust the limits. Is there something similar on the new front DR, and are the settings less prone to drift?

sawyer
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by sawyer

neeb wrote:Thanks all, great information! I must admit I do find the front shifting on my current setup less than excellent. More in the sense of consistency / reliability than anything else. If the new stuff offered detectably greater consistency and "set and forget" that would be welcome.

One issue I have is that the adjustment of the outer limit screw on the front DR has to be spot on to prevent over-throwing or underthrowing, and thus dropped chains... And it always seems to go out of adjustment! I read that the new RD now has hex screws at the back to adust the limits. Is there something similar on the new front DR, and are the settings less prone to drift?


need - that really sounds like a set-up issue

I'll modestly admit to rarely front-shifting, but in 10+ years on Campag, most of which has obviously been on pre-15, I've dropped my chain 5 or 6 times
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Flapmeat
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by Flapmeat

I used to drop chains quite a bit. I readjusted the FD. It sat a bit high, closer to 3mm, maybe higher from the big ring. Dropped it down to have about 1mm clearance and I have not dropped yet.

Regarding front shifting with new crank, very snappy. Has gone in every time, and I made sure to shift chain rings quite a bit. I need a minor adjustment for lower limit screw as the chain has been grazing on the lowest gear, but aside from that, zero problems. And I absolutely LOVE the fact that I can swap ring sets without having to buy new arms (I use 53/39 just as much as 50/34)

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