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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am
Posts: 405
donald wrote:
..


Hi Donald!

I started a thread about titanium spokes, more specifically the Pillar X-TRA Lite Ti 2.6g/260mm that I suspect you are using.

If possible I'd love for you to comment on the subject. Titanium spokes are kind of getting a bad name for being low performing. Are these X-TRA Lite nothing special or do they stand out like Pillar promises with their tension graphs.

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=144402

Thank you
/a


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:32 pm
Posts: 261
Location: san francisco ca. usa
Alcatraz, I have two pairs of wheels with pillar X-tra lite ti spokes. I have used pillar X-tra lite spokes on various wheels for at least the past 7 years. I have broken a few j bend non-drive side rear wheel spokes, not built with a very high tension. I have only broke one straight pull spoke on a rear wheel drive side 20 hole rear wheel. I never broke a straight pull on a 16 hole front wheel. I'm sure the number of spokes per wheel can have some effect on reliability. I'm sure if the wheel is built with close to the same tension each spoke it helps, of course the non-drive side of a rear wheel will be less but being even each spoke is best. I have used other ti spokes through the years but the pillar X-tra lite really are the lightest and overall I would recommend them. Good luck on all your bikes and wheels.


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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:23 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am
Posts: 405
donald wrote:
Alcatraz, I have two pairs of wheels with pillar X-tra lite ti spokes. I have used pillar X-tra lite spokes on various wheels for at least the past 7 years. I have broken a few j bend non-drive side rear wheel spokes, not built with a very high tension. I have only broke one straight pull spoke on a rear wheel drive side 20 hole rear wheel. I never broke a straight pull on a 16 hole front wheel. I'm sure the number of spokes per wheel can have some effect on reliability. I'm sure if the wheel is built with close to the same tension each spoke it helps, of course the non-drive side of a rear wheel will be less but being even each spoke is best. I have used other ti spokes through the years but the pillar X-tra lite really are the lightest and overall I would recommend them. Good luck on all your bikes and wheels.


Thank you so much for the info. Looking at stock wheels the lightest seem to use CX Super spokes and Pillar Megalite. They are the lightest stainless steel spokes.

What made you go with the titanium ones compared to the ss ones? Seems it's not an easy choice.

Is not breaking a spoke your only criterium? What about wheel stiffness?

How and when was your transition from ss to ti spoke wheels?

/a


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:32 pm
Posts: 261
Location: san francisco ca. usa
Its nice to have this forum so many people here have so much knowledge and experience, we need both. I am not an expert on spokes. I have used different brands of steel through the years, most of my wheels now have them. I first used ti spokes in the '80's. I had some ti spokes that were very poor quality or perhaps the way they were made caused them to break more often. I use ti only on my lightest wheels and most of them are a little more flexy but that is OK, lighter weight was a little more important to me on those particular wheels. I think ti stretches a little more but I think they are just as durable as steel if it is a good quality spoke. Size of rim depth, what kind of rim, hub flange size, how many spokes per wheel, spoke pattern, kinds of roads used on, I'm sure for some even size of tire used can influence their spoke choice. There are good quality steel spokes that are light and build up not much heavier that ti depending on number of spokes per wheel. Some use a little higher tension since the load is carried by fewer spokes on low spoke count wheels. There is more that can be said about spokes and I can always say more about my experiences.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:33 am
Posts: 99
Location: Prescott, AZ
Hey Donald, nice bike!!!! What is it like to ride a bike this light, compared to your average "light" 15lb bike? Does a 15lb bike feel significantly slower? People say weight doesn't matter much. But when your 7.38lbs, surely there would be a noticeable difference right? Does riding it feel like cheating? Also, is it flexy, comfortable, stable in high winds, etc? Any performance specific compromises when going that light?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am
Posts: 405
Forgive me Donald.... for a man with such experience I hope you can allow this last one question.

Do you think the X-TRA Lite are less stretchy than your previously used Ti spokes?

Being Ti and small cross sectioned they should be the most stretchy but Pillar wants us to believe they are not (graph shows 250kgf at 2.5mm = ss performamce). It's as if they are made of some "magic" alloy.

/a


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:32 pm
Posts: 261
Location: san francisco ca. usa
eyedrop, Rue said the frame would be stiff and it is. The short head tube helps. I told Rue that I would never use it in a crit.. and so to make it with a very low bottom bracket height. This helps with it being more stable in high speed descents, and it is stable in high winds, I don't use deep section wheels. The only compromise in performance I have is descents on rough, bad roads where the compromise is due to very light wheels not the frame or components, and the compromise is more about having to be more watchful for pot holes, etc. There is a noticeable difference in feel and actual performance when doing longer, steeper climbs, than a bike that is twice as heavy. You ask if it feels like cheating? Yes and no. I have had riders protest to USCF officials that my bike was illegal when I would win hilly road races, but that rule only applied to national races. I only weigh 138 lbs. and so even on club rides I did have feelings kind of like I was cheating on climbs but what can I say, it is what it is. I mainly wanted everybody to enjoy rides and races and change or do whatever they can to make their bikes and body/mind improve and enjoy even more.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:32 pm
Posts: 261
Location: san francisco ca. usa
Alcatraz, I wish I could help you. The X-tra were more stretchy that some straight guage ti spokes I used and with other butted ti spokes I used it was hard to tell. If one is using a longer spoke due to a small section rim and small hub flange there is going to be a little more stretch just because the spoke is longer. I could not tell much flex on 20 hole f/ 24 hole r wheels, but more on 16/20 hole wheels and that was more in climbing, pushing a bigger gear at a lower cadence. I don't know if I would believe everything Pillar says about their specs. on these spokes. Is there any kind of quality control needed in making these spokes or do all batches of them have the exact same specs and quality? Could there be some ever so small differences? I don't know. If someone weighs a lot, well that could also be a big factor as it might be a concern in long term use/miles with these spokes.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:50 am
Posts: 27
It's very light. But I am concerned about the safety of bicycles.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 3844
I am sure there are no safety concerns with Donald's bike.

_________________
BIG DADDY B FLOW
AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5960g/13.13 lbs


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:32 pm
Posts: 261
Location: san francisco ca. usa
redna12, Its OK to have concerns. This is probably a bigger and more general issue because something very light is pushing the boundaries, and there are many, many factors involved. I have had many ww bikes and used them on some very bad roads for many, many years. I have some knowledge and experience about what works for me, which might not work for someone else. I am confident in my bike, this helps to be relaxed on the bike, this makes for greater safety, and none of us wants to crash. Knowledge, experience, luck, karma, etc., we are trying to push the boundaries but don't know everything.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:49 am 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 7:28 pm
Posts: 1166
The only concern he has is how long before his starbike discount kicks in

Sent from my KFARWI using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Posts: 473
Location: Great Southern Land
kulivontot wrote:
The only concern he has is how long before his starbike discount kicks in

Sent from my KFARWI using Tapatalk


Yep.............. :wink: Damn nuisances

_________________
Ahhh, coffee & carbon


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Posts: 772
Location: Pom living in Australia
beanbiken wrote:
kulivontot wrote:
The only concern he has is how long before his starbike discount kicks in

Sent from my KFARWI using Tapatalk


Yep.............. :wink: Damn nuisances

And all for the sake of a massive 5% discount. :D


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Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:09 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Posts: 473
Location: Great Southern Land
KCookie wrote:
beanbiken wrote:
kulivontot wrote:
The only concern he has is how long before his starbike discount kicks in

Sent from my KFARWI using Tapatalk


Yep.............. :wink: Damn nuisances

And all for the sake of a massive 5% discount. :D


Sorry, even worse than that as the discount is now a grand 2.5%......honestly :roll:
They choke the forum up with meaningless drivel to save^^^^^^. I can see at some point it will be a zero discount, but so be it

_________________
Ahhh, coffee & carbon


Last edited by beanbiken on Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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