Zipp 404 NSW vs Enve 4.5 on crosswinds

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zappafile123
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Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

omerhorovitz wrote:
jeffy wrote:which do you *want* the most? get them.


that's the hard part haha

i want both the same so i am looking at what is better at crosswinds because it is the biggest issue for me


These wheels are not deep enough to give you problems man. They are both designed to dissipate force evenly, they are not like mavics or lightweights where a gust of wind induces sudden steering torque.

Personally I'd get the NSW's for the superior braking. Braking is more important than the negligible difference in crosswind handling between the two sets - you're making your decision premised on the wrong criteria.

If aero is a consideration, again, you're not going to feel a difference, both are friggen fast.

The upside to a set of Enve's is the choice of hubs. As ya'll know, Zipps have a history of producing shit hubs. However, word is that the new NSW hubs are significantly better than the outgoing model.

Im 60kg and ride on 58 mm deep wheels everyday. If you havent used wheels this deep as an everyday rider before, its weird at first, but you do get used to the way the wheels handle in winds. Just stick with it and it'll become normal.
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DavidMLee
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by DavidMLee

Zipp hubs cannot be compared to DT swiss..

DT swiss has been proved to be reliable for years.
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Zigmeister
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by Zigmeister

I weight 165lbs, have run 56mm deep wheels, never had issues with crosswind with wide "aero" wheels. Also have 40mm wide wheels as well. They ride the same IMHO. Just more aero the deeper version.

You won't have issues.

With that said...for the money of Enve, kind of a joke they run DT240S hubs or Chris Kings. Yes, they are both reliable/good hubs, but they weigh a metric ton. So they might be "bomb proof" on one sense. But they will weight 70-90 grams more than a comparable set with lighter/better hubs.

I always found it baffling that a rim that costs $900 each (Enve) they lace up with DT240S hubs from the factory?!?! WTF? Some high-end build that is.

Anyway, Zipp seems to have gotten their act together finally on their hubs. the new NSW/Rear and Front hubs are much improved over the V2-V3 Firecrest and last version of the wheels. Haven't heard much negative stuff about the new hubs at all.

I just wonder if they improved on the stiffness of the rear wheel/hub? The 303s FC I had were ridiculously "loose" and had a lot of side movement. Made weird noises. Enve won't do that, strong Rim.

But, if you can save 400....go for it.

Good luck.

Dokas
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by Dokas

zipp 404 NSW but Wait for the release tublar

mimason
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by mimason

Zigmeister wrote:With that said...for the money of Enve, kind of a joke they run DT240S hubs or Chris Kings. Yes, they are both reliable/good hubs, but they weigh a metric ton. So they might be "bomb proof" on one sense. But they will weight 70-90 grams more than a comparable set with lighter/better hubs.

I always found it baffling that a rim that costs $900 each (Enve) they lace up with DT240S hubs from the factory?!?! WTF? Some high-end build that is.


What hubs are better that are lighter and as durable? Admittedly, I'm not a huge DT fan( although I own them too) but really only due to the fact that the rear should build up stiffer imo. The hubs that I know of that are significantly better are also heavier in the form of T11s and Shimano. Thanks for your input.

sd5500
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by sd5500

I have the gen 2 4.5s with the Enve hubs, and I love them. I'm 160 and have had 0 issues on a few of the windy days I raced them.

Zigmeister
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm

by Zigmeister

mimason wrote:
Zigmeister wrote:With that said...for the money of Enve, kind of a joke they run DT240S hubs or Chris Kings. Yes, they are both reliable/good hubs, but they weigh a metric ton. So they might be "bomb proof" on one sense. But they will weight 70-90 grams more than a comparable set with lighter/better hubs.

I always found it baffling that a rim that costs $900 each (Enve) they lace up with DT240S hubs from the factory?!?! WTF? Some high-end build that is.


What hubs are better that are lighter and as durable? Admittedly, I'm not a huge DT fan( although I own them too) but really only due to the fact that the rear should build up stiffer imo. The hubs that I know of that are significantly better are also heavier in the form of T11s and Shimano. Thanks for your input.



You have to buy some "boutique" hubs and have them custom built. Most manufacturers end up designing/having someone build their own hubs. Enve did that with their carbon hubs. But they have no option for a good strong, light hub in aluminum. They just use some other company's brand hubs. Which aren't light by any means. 220gms for a rear hub is kind of silly today.

Tune, Extralite etc...go to fairwheel bikes, they have many boutique hubs.

My point is really targeted at Enve. They ask $950 PER RIM?!?! Nearly $2K for just the rims new. They they put some average, nothing special hub on their??? Bizarre.

At least the other manuf have designed/developed their own branded hubs to solve issues.

Anyway, not such a huge deal except when it comes to wheel strength/build/bracing angles etc.. Plus, the extra weight is at the center of the wheel, not like it is at the edges, so the weight thing isn't a huge deal in that respect.

I'm just railing on Enve here on the justification of such a price rim, and basic/reliable hub they decided to use. But, both hubs, DT240S and Chris King are reliable and nearly bomb proof. Most people would be happy.

But this is weight weenies, don't think anybody agrees that Chris King and DT Swiss are anything special other than average for a Road Bike wheel. Run of the mill I guess you could say.

I have a DT240S on my rear wheel and Alchemy Elf front, the DT240S is reliable, quiet and has been very good. But bounce up and down on the saddle while coasting, and the rim/wheel will flex and hit the left brake pad??? Haha...wow, great bracing angle and solid build. Wheel was built by one of the best builders in the business and well know. The wheel build isn't the problem, it's the hub.

Good luck. As I said, the Zipp wheel with their latest designed hubs, are probably one of the best they've ever released, hands down IMO. Enve has a great rim, use CXRay spokes/nipples, and an descent/good/reliable hub. Can't go wrong with either.

But, I just bought a set of Reynolds Strike SLG clinchers to replace my failed tubular rims from china. Selling my Tune hubs to recoup some money. They were great, until the rim/spoke hole started started pulling through!!

omerhorovitz
Posts: 7
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by omerhorovitz

wow thank you all for all this info!!
i use now 41 Reynolds assault SLG wheel. when i descend i get around 80-95kph and then i feel the crosswinds actually. on the flat or rolling hills i have no problem with the winds. the hub issue is really important to, here i prefer the Zipp.
so with the price difference and a better hub in my opinion i will go for the Zipp 404 nsw. review will be soon from Alps and Tuscany

hongsj
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:47 am

by hongsj

enve is better.

check6
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:27 am

by check6

I run 303s and 3.4s. Hardly scientific and not a direct comparison. That said, I like my Zipps better. They seem to carry speed better on faster rides, are *almost* as good as the Enves in a cross and are WAY better on the brake. I bought mine from wheelbuilder, so they are laced to CK hubs. I like them so much I'm going to sell the 3,4s and add some 404s to my wall; also with Chris King hubs.

DaReef
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:36 am

by DaReef

I have 404 NSWs, a custom built set of BOYD 60s, and Roval 50 tubulars. From seat of pants feel the NSWs and Boyds are close in ride quality, breaking, crosswinds, etc. The Rovals are by far the best.

Noctiluxx
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by Noctiluxx

My 404 NSW's are as good as my older 303's with heavy cross winds. Having said that, my Campy Bora Ultra 50's are vastly superior to any aero wheel I've ever ridden before.
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KarlC
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by KarlC

Grill wrote:Reynolds Aeros are better in crosswinds than both.


I have to agree with Grill om this .....

I just got a like new 2nd hand set of Reynolds 58 / 72 Aero tubular wheels with just a few hundred miles on them for 80% off Retail prices.

Comparing these to the Zipp 404 Firecrest tubular wheels I have, I would pick the Reynolds hands down.

The Reynolds are ....
- Lighter - They are right at 1300 grams
- Stiffer - They don't move side to side like the Zipp 404 are know to do
- Braking - Hands down the Reynolds are so much better, especially with the Reynolds Cryo Blue Power Brake Pads
- Better Quality - These things are a work of art
- Better Hubs - DT Swiss 240 VS Zipp hubs with know issues
- Wider - Not has wide as some of the current wheels but wider that the Zipp 404 Firecrest
- Faster - Its had to say but they do feel faster, and I have been setting new Strava PR's on every ride
- Cross Winds - I dont even notice them in cross winds, read the reviews they all say the same thing.

On top of all that they just feel better all around, I have more confidence riding them, this brings miles of smiles.
Last edited by KarlC on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stueys
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by Stueys

Never ridden the zipps but have a set of 4.5 on CK hubs. Builds into a nice stiff wheel. The wheels are great in crosswinds, they inspire confidence, you can feel the wind but it's a gentle build up of pressure as opposed to a yank.

The braking on mine is nothing special bit I've gen 1, my friend on gen 2 says it's comparable with ally in the dry and not far off in the wet.

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Gazelleer
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by Gazelleer

Noctiluxx wrote:My 404 NSW's are as good as my older 303's with heavy cross winds. Having said that, my Campy Bora Ultra 50's are vastly superior to any aero wheel I've ever ridden before.

In what respect?

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