If Venge Vias is claimed faster than Shiv TT, then why don't we see Vias in TT's...

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Timujin
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm

by Timujin

ProfessorChaos wrote:Yes, position is always going to be vital. I have all 3, the Venge, Venge ViAS, and a nosecone Shiv. The Shiv is definitely the fastest of all due to the position, and that I always use a disc rear wheel on it. The position is the big part of it though. I recently did a strava loop around a lake here in Dallas one day on my Venge. I went pretty hard for the 17km lap and I averaged 230w for the lap. When I got home I realized I was less than 1min off of the KOM. I came back the next week on my Shiv to see if I could take it. I also used my Evade Skinsuit, and Sub 6 shoes. I was 1/4 of the way into my warm up lap, and I realized I was 45sec ahead of my PR lap the week prior. So I opened it up. I took the KOM, and beat my previous best on the Venge by 2:14. I've yet to try on my Venge ViAS, but I am certain it will beat my Venge time, but it won't come close to the Shiv time. The position means that much. The other interesting note is even though I was 2:14 faster. I averaged 10w less on the Shiv lap. I did this lap with my Evade helmet, and then I tried two more laps with my S-Works TT helmet. I couldn't beat my first lap as I went so hard on the last 3/4 lap it zapped all my power. Each lap after was slower.

Full disclosure, I do work for Specialized, but I am an aeroweenie, and I have been since way before I worked here, and I was riding Cervelos. People can call aero marketing BS all they want, but it isn't, it is science. We didn't make the huge investment building a wind tunnel, just to make a bunch of cool marketing videos. My ViAS is definitely faster than my Venge, and my Shiv is faster than both of them. The only round tube bike I own is a Fatboy. I'm also a weight weenie, so I'll never part with my old Venge. They both have their place, but I'll never own a performance road bike that isn't an aero road bike.

These videos speak about the position differences, and then also the difference of using a Venge with clip ons vs a Shiv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMLKcHy ... SCDKCKR97t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZGPOj ... SCDKCKR97t


can we order the new shivTT in another colour other than white??

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ProfessorChaos
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by ProfessorChaos

Timujin wrote:
can we order the new shivTT in another colour other than white??


It depends on the country. I know we offer different colors on bikes in different places, and different specs all together. Since this is an international forum, I have to be careful about that. In the US, the Shiv TT is currently only offered in white. It is a pretty cool looking paint job though. Personally, I don't care for white too much.

wingguy
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by wingguy

djconnel wrote:Anyway, Tour magazine did aero tests and the Via came out considerably less impressive relative to the Madone 7 and the S5 than Specialized would have you think.


No, Tour magazine's tests found the Vias to be equally as aero as the new Madone and more aero than anything else, S5 included.

It did poorly over their simulated road course, but that's because it weighs the same as a lead boat anchor and as such no-one who visits a site called 'weightweenies' should ever consider buying it. Nevertheless, it does represent the state of the art when it comes to road bike aerodynamics.

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ProfessorChaos
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by ProfessorChaos

wingguy wrote:No, Tour magazine's tests found the Vias to be equally as aero as the new Madone and more aero than anything else, S5 included.

It did poorly over their simulated road course, but that's because it weighs the same as a lead boat anchor and as such no-one who visits a site called 'weightweenies' should ever consider buying it. Nevertheless, it does represent the state of the art when it comes to road bike aerodynamics.


That sounds more like it. However, I have my ViAS down pretty close to 7000g with 20110 404's on it. That's not so bad. I would also choose it over my lighter 2015 S-Works Venge for most instances. My old Cervelo S2, I once had down to 5890g with the same wheels. It was super flexy in the front end. That is a story that isn't told well enough. The Venge ViAS is the most stiff precise handling bike I've ever ridden. It's the second Rider First Engineered bike we've produced. It handles sharper than the old Venge for sure, and the BB stiffness is unparalleled. The old Venge made me not want to ride the S2 anymore, and the new Venge is even stiffer yet.

Timujin
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Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm

by Timujin

ProfessorChaos wrote:
Timujin wrote:
can we order the new shivTT in another colour other than white??


It depends on the country. I know we offer different colors on bikes in different places, and different specs all together. Since this is an international forum, I have to be careful about that. In the US, the Shiv TT is currently only offered in white. It is a pretty cool looking paint job though. Personally, I don't care for white too much.


same here in uk, only white.... shame, i just do not like white at all!

TheDarkInstall
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by TheDarkInstall

They might be aero, but the custom mounted aero brakes are the absolute worst, notching, gritty, impossible to make smooth heaps of rubbish I have ever felt.

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ProfessorChaos
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by ProfessorChaos

Timujin wrote:same here in uk, only white.... shame, i just do not like white at all!


I am with you my friend. I don't like white bikes much myself. I guess there is always the option of custom paint, if you can't find an old black one. I personally want to have my nosecone custom painted one day.

TheDarkInstall wrote:They might be aero, but the custom mounted aero brakes are the absolute worst, notching, gritty, impossible to make smooth heaps of rubbish I have ever felt.


They are tricky to setup for sure. Once setup right, they work quite well. Getting the cable housing length right is absolutely vital. I struggled with this at first on mine as well.

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ProfessorChaos
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by ProfessorChaos

All those wanting Shivs in a color other than white, maybe, just maybe next year that might happen. ;)

DavidMLee
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:48 pm

by DavidMLee

Spesh seemed to know that being too aero could lead less structural integrity from the picture of a broken frame above

Besides, I'm happy that it wastes no time to recall faulty products and takes responsibility for that.
Legend HT 9.5 RED 22
Colnago C60 Super Record
S-Works Tarmac 2016 eTap
S-Works Tarmac 2015 DA
Cervelo R3 2015 UT
Cervelo S2 2014 UT
Spesh Venge Elite 105

matrix
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:43 am

by matrix

ProfessorChaos wrote:Yes, position is always going to be vital. I have all 3, the Venge, Venge ViAS, and a nosecone Shiv. The Shiv is definitely the fastest of all due to the position, and that I always use a disc rear wheel on it. The position is the big part of it though. I recently did a strava loop around a lake here in Dallas one day on my Venge. I went pretty hard for the 17km lap and I averaged 230w for the lap. When I got home I realized I was less than 1min off of the KOM. I came back the next week on my Shiv to see if I could take it. I also used my Evade Skinsuit, and Sub 6 shoes. I was 1/4 of the way into my warm up lap, and I realized I was 45sec ahead of my PR lap the week prior. So I opened it up. I took the KOM, and beat my previous best on the Venge by 2:14. I've yet to try on my Venge ViAS, but I am certain it will beat my Venge time, but it won't come close to the Shiv time. The position means that much. The other interesting note is even though I was 2:14 faster. I averaged 10w less on the Shiv lap. I did this lap with my Evade helmet, and then I tried two more laps with my S-Works TT helmet. I couldn't beat my first lap as I went so hard on the last 3/4 lap it zapped all my power. Each lap after was slower.

Full disclosure, I do work for Specialized, but I am an aeroweenie, and I have been since way before I worked here, and I was riding Cervelos. People can call aero marketing BS all they want, but it isn't, it is science. We didn't make the huge investment building a wind tunnel, just to make a bunch of cool marketing videos. My ViAS is definitely faster than my Venge, and my Shiv is faster than both of them. The only round tube bike I own is a Fatboy. I'm also a weight weenie, so I'll never part with my old Venge. They both have their place, but I'll never own a performance road bike that isn't an aero road bike.

These videos speak about the position differences, and then also the difference of using a Venge with clip ons vs a Shiv.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMLKcHy ... SCDKCKR97t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZGPOj ... SCDKCKR97t




How do you like your NoseCone Shiv? I've been given a decent offer to get the frameset, but I don't know if I can justify it since it's well.. Outdated compared to the newer and nicer looking Shivs tris and TTs. In addition the frame size is 515 and I'm 5'4...

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ProfessorChaos
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by ProfessorChaos

matrix wrote:
How do you like your NoseCone Shiv? I've been given a decent offer to get the frameset, but I don't know if I can justify it since it's well.. Outdated compared to the newer and nicer looking Shivs tris and TTs. In addition the frame size is 515 and I'm 5'4...


It's actually the fastest Shiv we've ever made. I love mine. I actually just picked up another frame to send out, and get custom painted. It's actually very similar to the current Shiv TT. We just made slight changes to it, to make it UCI compliant.

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