Zipp 303 or 404 for Do-it-All Wheels

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Zipp 303 or 404

2016 Zipp 303 - 1625g
52
53%
2016 Zipp 404 - 1690g
47
47%
 
Total votes: 99

dynaserve
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:25 pm
Location: UK

by dynaserve

@ryanw - Hub recall. Total Recall.

Philbar72
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

by Philbar72

Shogunade wrote:wow. a lot of not-happy zipp owners.

its factual. I've replaced both my hubs on my 303. the wheels now roll properly... and don't need adjustment. :)

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superdx
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm

by superdx

What hubs did you go with? I'm looking to replace my rear hub with a DT240. Front hub just got replaced in the recall so I figure that should be good for awhile yet.

Philbar72
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

by Philbar72

Hope front, Dura ace rear.

should have gone hope rear as they are loud!!! and roll well!

tinozee
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by tinozee

Holy crap those are heavy, get tubulars.

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ryanw
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by ryanw

Tubs are not practical for everyday use IMO.
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mbrider
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:49 pm

by mbrider

@ryan- I voted for Zipp 404, because there really is nothing in it weight wise, and you will not have any issues with crosswinds at your size / weight. Might as well get the most aero out of it as you can.

Like others though, I would have to caution you against zipp in general.

I have a 808 tubular firecrest pair (2011? something like that) that have literally seen the least amount of miles and have been the highest maintenance (still need to do the hub recall).

I also have one 404 tub front (about the same model year). This one is in the shop for the hub recall, and a rim replacement.

If you are adamant about staying with clinchers, I would suggest getting a metal rim and go with latex tubes. I have a pair of Rolf Vigor wheels (mid pack weight wise at ~ 1470grms) with Vredstein latex tubes and currently Schwalbe One 25s. These are pretty light and very robust / just ride em and forget about it.

Even with my tubular wheels, it is very difficult to gain an advantage. I either have to go with a deeper rim (404 or 808) to gain aero, or with a shallower rim (Dura Ace C24 tubular) to gain a noticeable rotational weight difference. Obviously there is ~ 1lb weight difference in the pairs of wheels (I use heavy skewers and cassette for the clinchers to make it that way) - but the reality is, even at my weight (168lbs) a 1 pound difference is difficult to tell on the bike when riding.

The best wheels I have had so far are the Rolfs with Michelin Pro 2 in 25mm (though they were more like 28s) with the latex tubes. This was an extremely fast, very comfortable and grippy and even pretty good with puncture resistance. I have been chasing this combo for a while, with the new batch of tires. The Schwalbe Ones are nice, but not quite as comfy and maybe a slight hit in rolling resistance (they are not as wide). The Dura Ace wheels are also my favorites. They are what I would call semi aero (low spoke count 16 / 20) roll very well, super reliable and tough (hit many potholes, gravel etc.) and are still going strong without a hiccup. I consider these my benchmark for tubular wheels. Like a great crankset, they just work - maybe not the sexiest option or have the bling factor, but man they are just so solid.

The zipps are faster, without a doubt. And the 404 def feels very close to as light (spin up) to the Dura Ace tubies. They simply are not as rock solid. I have them because I race, and they keep you hooked once you buy in. The rear wheel I use with the 404 is a old Edge 1.68 tubular laced to a DT240 - this is the only rear wheel I have tried that I would say that compares to the Dura Ace c24 rear I have. Solid, just works and takes abuse without a peep.

I will be buying a new set of Corima wheels soon, and am hoping that they will live up to the benchmark of the Dura Ace wheels.

I would suggest you look at either Enve, Bontrager, Shimano or Campy/Fulcrum if you are going to stick with carbon clinchers.

Make sure you go with a tire that is as wide or wider than the carbon clincher (or any carbon rim for that matter), so you wont toast the rim the first time you hit a pothole or a rock in the road.

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ryanw
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by ryanw

Thanks for the detailed reply mate.

All i can hope is that the v10 hubs hold up, if not, they shall be returned and I'll buy something else, BUT I will give the Zipps a go.

The Corimas keep popping up but I'm pretty sure I'm too heavy for them. Their 47mm aeros are stunning.

As for wheels, tyres, I shall be changing from GP-II's to Schwable Pro V-Guards with Conti Lite 80mm valve tubes.

Always run GP-IIs but feel like a change...
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Dez33
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:02 am

by Dez33

ryanw wrote:
Lelandjt wrote:Usually the taller rim is stiffer and stronger (given same spokes). Why is the 303 stiffer?


The 303 (26.4mm) is wider than the 404 (24.7mm), so (I have been told) this increases is stiffness even thought there is a 13mm difference in rim depth.


Up until 2015 the 303's were stiffer because they had 24 spokes (rear) and the 404's had 20. From 2015 onwards they both have 24 spokes so the 404's are stiffer now.

For general use I would still get the 303's. Racing 404's.

superdx
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm

by superdx

ryanw wrote:Tubs are not practical for everyday use IMO.


I ride tubs daily. I find that punctures are a lot easier to fix than trying to replace an inner tube.

Just put in sealant, pump it up slightly, let the sealant find the hole, pump it up to full and keep riding.

I ride on pretty crap roads with lots of construction debris too.

Life is too short to be missing out on tubulars.

mnmasotto
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:16 pm
Location: Irvine, CA

by mnmasotto

I have owned both 303 and 404's. I prefer the 303's. I don't believe I could tell much of a difference between the two wheel sets. However, I should note that I do not race.

jb001e9634
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:31 am

by jb001e9634

I've ridden several different types of carbon/deep rims in the last few years.
FFWD F6R tubs - nice and light, stiff enough, caught the wind quite a lot, kind of a nice sound when rolling. Didn't excel in any particular area, they did look nice and stealthy though.
Corima Viva S tubs - very light, great spin up, de-stickered looked the business, not the stiffest, more a "climbers" wheel overall.
Campag Bullet 50 USB clincher - caught the wind, great hubs and rolled well. Alu braking track was a plus functionally but a minus aesthetically. Rolled well with 25mm GP4000s fitted.
Reynolds Aero 58 clincher - ALMOST perfect, NEVER had any wind issues, fast, aero and stiff (I've done nearly 1500 watts on them with no rubbing) braking was OK, even in the wet. The only downside was that the internal nipples retained water and the nipples corroded and failed causing the Wheel to go out of true. Returned under warranty.
Zipp 808 clincher - FAST. Fastest wheels I've ridden, once moving it felt like you could be in a gear up from your normal ratio. Over 25 mph really quick. Great sound, look great. The front wheel more susceptible to buffeting as you'd expect with a side-wind but overall manageable.
Zipp 404 clincher - also FAST, spin up a little quicker and still feel aero with less front wheel wind interaction.

Never tried ENVE SES but that would probably be my next choice, if there ever is one.

In my experience an 808 rear and a 404 front give you a great everyday wheel set and the 808 on the front can be added when needed, it just means keeping an extra wheel around the place. I'm around 100kg and ride fast flat, undulating roads mainly and so far the Zipps have been great. The current 77/177 straight laced combo creates a stiff wheel with a good hub rolling on great bearings that requires no pre-tensioning.

I'm inclined to agree with what's been posted already, I've never tried the 303 but I'd expect them to be good to ride.

tinozee
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am

by tinozee

ryanw wrote:Tubs are not practical for everyday use IMO.



I use them everyday and that is a lot of miles. I have gone through several pair Veloflex Arenberg and FMB Comp tires without getting a flat at all. Right through the rubber with no flats. For me, Veloflex last about 2000-2500 miles FMB more like 2200. Clinchers not worth the weight. I am so confident in the tubs I don't carry a spare (I put stan's in when I mount the tire and that's it). So unlike clinchers nothing to carry. Ironically, for my high speed segment attempts and at racing I ride Reynolds clinchers (with 23mm tires and high psi). But for training and joy riding I ride tubs - trouble free and comfortable. My roads are New England pot hole ridden crap.

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ryanw
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by ryanw

Thanks again for the replies all, very good reading and opening my eyes to a lot of things.

For one, I have always seen tubs are the black arts, not confident in being able to fit the tyre correctly etc.

Anyway, I'm still going for clinchers and ordered 2x Schwalbe One tyres and 4x 80mm valve Continental Lite Race tubes.
My mini pump was on its last legs, so I purchased a new one too, Lezyne Lite or something like that.

Seeing the 303s and 404s side by side on Friday and shall be coming home with one pair.........
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop

by Weenie


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eric01
Posts: 909
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am

by eric01

I've never tried the zipp clinchers but count me among the happy zipp customers. 303 tubs. Yes the hub recall is annoying but I've never had any problems prior. Never had any bearing play issues either.
Specialized Tarmac Sworks SL6, Moots Compact, Carl Strong Titanium

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