Movistar rider injured by disc brake in Paris-Roubaix

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Martin.dk
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:35 pm
Location: Denmark/Herning

by Martin.dk

Miller wrote:Quite apart from all the is/isn't technical arguments, the Ventoso incident has certainly allowed disc haters to give full flow to their anti-disc feelings. And feelings is where it's at, these banning decisions seem short on fact and long on feeling. Let's build a wall to keep all the discs out!


oh just like you, who give your pro disc feeling full flow :) Isn't a ban the best until those facts you're asking for are found?

/Martin
Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:Ohh okay! I just knew "plug" was something to put inside a hole... yikes

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Ste_S
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:53 pm

by Ste_S

[quote="tabmaster"]
So, I now read about manufacturers who have put all their eggs in the disc basket for the next couple of model years at least who have had their plans ruined... {/quote]

I find it surprising how little pull the bike manufacturers have with the UCI so far - limits on bike design, weight limits, the UCI approved sticker etc
Bike companies have played nicely with the UCI up until now, but with the UCI putting the brakes (sorry) on the disc brake hype train, I wonder how long it will be until the bike companies start pushing back

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tabmaster
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:38 pm
Location: England, occiasionally Flanders.

by tabmaster

I find it surprising how little pull the bike manufacturers have with the UCI so far - limits on bike design, weight limits, the UCI approved sticker etc
Bike companies have played nicely with the UCI up until now, but with the UCI putting the brakes (sorry) on the disc brake hype train, I wonder how long it will be until the bike companies start pushing back[/quote]

Why should manufacturers have any 'pull' with the UCI at all? The UCI are there to make the regulations as they see fit, not the other way around! If that were the case, then what would they next 'big thing' that we all 'need' be? Motors? They'd make climbing sooo effortless and anyone who thinks there not 'needed' has obviously never tried it, etc, etc... :roll:
Okay, that's going too far, obviously, but that might be the reality if the manufacturers association was allowed to have any 'pull' with the UCI, as you put it.
If the grand tours are like classical music, kermesse racing is punkrock, Belgian style.
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spookyload
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

by spookyload

tabmaster wrote:I find it surprising how little pull the bike manufacturers have with the UCI so far - limits on bike design, weight limits, the UCI approved sticker etc
Bike companies have played nicely with the UCI up until now, but with the UCI putting the brakes (sorry) on the disc brake hype train, I wonder how long it will be until the bike companies start pushing back


Why should manufacturers have any 'pull' with the UCI at all? The UCI are there to make the regulations as they see fit, not the other way around! If that were the case, then what would they next 'big thing' that we all 'need' be? Motors? They'd make climbing sooo effortless and anyone who thinks there not 'needed' has obviously never tried it, etc, etc... :roll:
Okay, that's going too far, obviously, but that might be the reality if the manufacturers association was allowed to have any 'pull' with the UCI, as you put it.[/quote]

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
-John Dalberg-Acton

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spookyload
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

by spookyload

tabmaster wrote:I find it surprising how little pull the bike manufacturers have with the UCI so far - limits on bike design, weight limits, the UCI approved sticker etc
Bike companies have played nicely with the UCI up until now, but with the UCI putting the brakes (sorry) on the disc brake hype train, I wonder how long it will be until the bike companies start pushing back

[/quote]

Wouldn't be a hard thing to push for them. Simply don't make a rim brake above the 105 level for 2017. Get SRAM and Campy on board with the decision and teams will be on disc.

maxxevv
Posts: 2012
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

Martin.dk wrote:
bici1977 wrote:
Well you have the "classic" well known road bike with it's different features (and chainrings can be a risk I agree) but the difference is that you add another risk to the system when you add discs.

/Martin


Then you should either ride with downtube shifters or no remote gear shifting options.
- and single pivot brakes
- and wooden rims running straight gauge spokes
- and natural cork brake pads
- and Brooks style leather saddles
- and 28" x 35 tubular tyres that weigh 500g each
- and all steel, lugged frameset.
- toeclip pedals

That's more appropriate for 'classic bike features'. :beerchug:

saibot
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:34 am

by saibot

Get these rotating knives away from meeee!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YJeKb_hzAE

Oh wait... pros are pussies ;)

maxxevv
Posts: 2012
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

Ventoso is one big liar ...

Either that or someone was using meat slicer blades as brakes discs IF what he said about the whole incident
has any truth in it.

Martin.dk
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:35 pm
Location: Denmark/Herning

by Martin.dk

maxxevv wrote:
Martin.dk wrote:
bici1977 wrote:
Well you have the "classic" well known road bike with it's different features (and chainrings can be a risk I agree) but the difference is that you add another risk to the system when you add discs.

/Martin


Then you should either ride with downtube shifters or no remote gear shifting options.
- and single pivot brakes
- and wooden rims running straight gauge spokes
- and natural cork brake pads
- and Brooks style leather saddles
- and 28" x 35 tubular tyres that weigh 500g each
- and all steel, lugged frameset.
- toeclip pedals

That's more appropriate for 'classic bike features'. :beerchug:


I think you misunderstood me Maxxevv maybe due to the fact that English is not my native language. All the stuff on your list is gone today because it was improved and in many cases made safer. None of that evolving was made by ADDING aditional risks.

You could argue that disc brakes are a similar evolution towards something safer, I actually don't disagree with that. Remove the risk (put on a cover) and it's all good.

But it's UCI's rules and I think they should guard the rules and don't let the manufacturers decide how bikes should look or operate in their races.

If Adidas, Puma and Nike decided that they wanted to sell a lot of new soccer boots and thus decided that soccer is more fun with steel toes on the boots....should Fifa just change the soccer rules and force everybody to use steel toed boots?

Apart from that nobody are stooping anyone from riding the crap out of your disc brake equipped road bikes :-)

/Martin
Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:Ohh okay! I just knew "plug" was something to put inside a hole... yikes

maxxevv
Posts: 2012
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

Watch the video link provided by saibot ....

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Miller
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Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Martin.dk wrote:oh just like you, who give your pro disc feeling full flow :) Isn't a ban the best until those facts you're asking for are found?
/Martin


Well, I haven't given my pro disc feelings , such as they are, full flow.

The Ventoso incident is disputed. He goes off on a rant about being cut by a disc but if there is any proof of this at all, I have not seen it. No doubt he received a horrible cut but there are many ways to do that. Nevertheless the UCI has taken fright and banned discs with Euro federations following suit for sportives, of all things.

Facts about the danger or not of discs seem in very short supply. There are some internet fright photos but there are internet fright photos for everything. On the other hand there is a barrel-load of ill-feeling towards discs and that's what has the upper hand for the moment. And while discs are banned from racing, where is the statistically valid evidence going to come from?

Martin.dk
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:35 pm
Location: Denmark/Herning

by Martin.dk

Well it's up to the manufacturers to prove that, they own product safety on their designs.

I'm sure you don't suggest using pro riders as guineapigs and races as testlabs. No matter if you trust the Ventoso accident or not, you're at the very least ADDING a theoretical risk to the bike.

Please tell me of any industry where you're allowed to ADD a risk to a current system, without prober risk assessment and mitigating procedures/PPE.

add a permanent cover and the deal is closed. If the manufacturers fear a cover will turn people away due to e.g. looks, well then disks isn't important enough for them.

/Martin
Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:Ohh okay! I just knew "plug" was something to put inside a hole... yikes

maxxevv
Posts: 2012
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

So where is the " theoretical risk" coming from ? And whose theory was it ? And how do you quantify it ? And for that matter, how do you qualify it ?

We have video evidence to qualify the reverse, you have evidence to qualify it positively ?

Else its just heresy ....

by Weenie


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jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

saibot wrote:Get these rotating knives away from meeee!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YJeKb_hzAE

Oh wait... pros are pussies ;)


well i certainly winced, i assumed he has going to use some meat or something al la GCN.

i certainly wouldnt want to see someone try and stop a wheel by grabbing the cassette.

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