Movistar rider injured by disc brake in Paris-Roubaix

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euan
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 am

by euan

Gavf wrote:the difference between winning and losing can be as little as not using a seat post/saddle


Citation required.

by Weenie


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jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

spookyload wrote:The difference between the winner an loser at the pro tour level isn't measured in grams of non-rotating mass on a bike.


the winner and loser of the internet is. :?

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

spookyload wrote:
Gavf wrote:
spookyload wrote:It's not about the bike in mountain stages.....


Of course it is (assumingyou are talking about weight), what are you talking about? Very basic physics tells you there will be a difference.

I compete in national/inter hill climb races, the difference between winning and losing can be as little as not using a seat post/saddle and cutting the drops off your bars.

This reality is not up for debate, at a fundamental level.


This is sport. Maybe psychologically at your amateur level, trimming your seatpost is going to help. But the extra 12g isn't making that much difference. Since you seem to be the expert who doesn't want to debate, please explain to us pleebs in physics, how much energy is lost per gram carried up a hill of unknown gradient. The difference between the winner an loser at the pro tour level isn't measured in grams of non-rotating mass on a bike.


Yes, it would be interesting to see those calculations. In national hill climb races are they deciding the winners by hundreds of a second or thousandths?

Not to mention that it's the one format where, pretty much by definition, you don't give a *f##k* if you're running any useable brakes at all :wink:

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euan
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 am

by euan

As long as you have two forms of brakes tough ;)

Gavf
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: United Kingdom

by Gavf

spookyload wrote:This is sport. Maybe psychologically at your amateur level, trimming your seatpost is going to help. But the extra 12g isn't making that much difference. Since you seem to be the expert who doesn't want to debate, please explain to us pleebs in physics, how much energy is lost per gram carried up a hill of unknown gradient. The difference between the winner an loser at the pro tour level isn't measured in grams of non-rotating mass on a bike.


An American said this...

The difference between the winner an loser at the pro tour level isn't measured in grams of non-rotating mass on a bike


LOL!

Gavf
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: United Kingdom

by Gavf

wingguy wrote:WHAT DID YOU SAY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!

Henao is 15th in GC. When does GC stop being GC? Top 10 only? podium? Winner?


Do you understand what GC means?

Henao is obviously not GC considering Landa Ab'

wingguy wrote:Maybe psychologically at your amateur level, trimming your seatpost is going to help. But the extra 12g isn't making that much difference. Since you seem to be the expert who doesn't want to debate, please explain to us pleebs in physics, how much energy is lost per gram carried up a hill of unknown gradient. The difference between the winner an loser at the pro tour level isn't measured in grams of non-rotating mass on a bike.

[/quote]

My carbon seat post and saddle weigh 301g, cutting my bars saved 56g.

YES as mad as it sounds...

That is enough to win a or lose a mountain hill climb.

I am very sorry science and very basic physics disagrees with you.


:D :D :D :D

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Gavf wrote:
wingguy wrote:WHAT DID YOU SAY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!

Henao is 15th in GC. When does GC stop being GC? Top 10 only? podium? Winner?


Do you understand what GC means?

Henao is obviously not GC considering Landa Ab'


Given that Henao is top 20 in GC, and was Skys top GC rider remaining in the race when those weights were takn what on earth makes you think he is riding a bike considerably heavier than Landa's would have been? Why would they do that? Do you think Sky is in the habit of intentionally sabotaging their main hope on any given day?

I am very sorry science and very basic physics disagrees with you.


OK, do the physics. How much time does 56 grams save you on a hillclimb? Math it out for me.

(And that wasn't my quote, BTW. Mine would be 'Well d'uh, no-one cares about brakes on a hillclimb anyway')

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spookyload
Posts: 1048
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:47 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

by spookyload

Gavf wrote:
spookyload wrote:This is sport. Maybe psychologically at your amateur level, trimming your seatpost is going to help. But the extra 12g isn't making that much difference. Since you seem to be the expert who doesn't want to debate, please explain to us pleebs in physics, how much energy is lost per gram carried up a hill of unknown gradient. The difference between the winner an loser at the pro tour level isn't measured in grams of non-rotating mass on a bike.


An American said this...

The difference between the winner an loser at the pro tour level isn't measured in grams of non-rotating mass on a bike


LOL!

So you ingnore my request to actually prove anything you are spouting and just become a Euro-snob? You give the people I met while living there a very bad name. Where you are from means nothing, it is who you are and how you present yourself that counts. I guess you said it, so it must be true. If you want to give fact as fact, site something or simply say it is your opinion. Don't try and be the be all and know all and expect us to believe a word you are saying simply because you are a keyboard expert.
Last edited by spookyload on Thu May 26, 2016 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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spookyload
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Location: Albuquerque, NM

by spookyload

Gavf wrote:


My carbon seat post and saddle weigh 301g, cutting my bars saved 56g.

YES as mad as it sounds...

That is enough to win a or lose a mountain hill climb.

I am very sorry science and very basic physics disagrees with you.


:D :D :D :D[/quote]
WTF kind of bars are you running that you can cut them and save 56g? Most WW bars are under 200g, so by your distorted math, you cut a 1/4 of your bars off? BTW, the majority of the weight in bars is in the top reinforced area, so I am guessing you just went ahead and cut a third of your bars off. Seems legit. And please tell me what does that have to do with your seatpost and saddle weight? Again, as you keep mentioning, I am obviously inept at math and physics, which involve numbers, so please show me your genius and give me actual numbers that translate grams in to watts saved going up a climb. Numbers, not simply you saying how smart you are and how dumb I am.

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LeDuke
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Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

He's waiting for an American to invent an app for that.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Gavf
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: United Kingdom

by Gavf

spookyload wrote:
WTF kind of bars are you running that you can cut them and save 56g? Most WW bars are under 200g, so by your distorted math, you cut a 1/4 of your bars off? BTW, the majority of the weight in bars is in the top reinforced area, so I am guessing you just went ahead and cut a third of your bars off. Seems legit.


Carbon bars, each drop was cut off, each one weighed 28grams.

You might want to google it, as it is very common.

I am very sorry actual facts disagree with you, again.

[quote="spookyload"]And please tell me what does that have to do with your seatpost and saddle weight? Again, as you keep mentioning, I am obviously inept at math and physics, which involve numbers, so please show me your genius and give me actual numbers that translate grams in to watts saved going up a climb. Numbers, not simply you saying how smart you are and how dumb I am.

Again, this is very easy for any layman to work out.

If two riders each produce 400watts for ten minutes and each weigh 70kg, who will get to the top of the climb first

1, - bike weighing 7kg

or

2, - bike weighing 6.5kg

If you disagree with the well accepted basic science, like gravity, then don't respond at all.

Gavf
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:16 pm
Location: United Kingdom

by Gavf

wingguy wrote:Given that Henao is top 20 in GC, and was Skys top GC rider remaining in the race when those weights were takn what on earth makes you think he is riding a bike considerably heavier than Landa's would have been? Why would they do that? Do you think Sky is in the habit of intentionally sabotaging their main hope on any given day?


Why don't you go and ask Sky

wingguy wrote:Math it out for me.


I am not going to waste my time explaining power to weight ratios, when it is a very common and easy calculation any 12 year old could do.

It appears like you disagree with basic science, rather than disagreeing with me.

wingguy wrote:(And that wasn't my quote, BTW. Mine would be 'Well d'uh, no-one cares about brakes on a hillclimb anyway')


Shock, horror!! There are many hill climb events that have decents and brakes are absolutly needed, no one ever would use discs though, that would be utterly stupendous.

BikeAnon
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:36 pm
Location: NY USA

by BikeAnon

I am late to this party... I'm not going back to find out how we got into hill-climb championships....


Why are we discussing weight and hill-climbs? There is a UCI minimum, and any pro bike (even with discs) can be built to come in below the limit. And most pros
A) don't know what their bikes weigh
B) don't ride with minimum weigh bikes.

How Much Does Your Bike Weigh? Pro Cyclists Guess Bike Weight | Dubai Tour 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMsgzD-JFQs

Weight of individual components is meaningless, if everyone has to stick to the same minimum overall weight.
Last edited by BikeAnon on Thu May 26, 2016 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

Look you guys, if you want to debate and discuss the weight and impact of various bike components i am sure there is an appropriate forum on the internet to do so!

by Weenie


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ergott
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Location: Islip, NY
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by ergott

Gavf wrote:that would be utterly stupendous.


You might want to look of the definition of stupendous.

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