Climbing wheels

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MikeyBE
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:59 pm

by MikeyBE

No doubt the AX wheels climb fantastically well... But how do they descend?

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964Cup
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

MikeyBE wrote:No doubt the AX wheels climb fantastically well... But how do they descend?

I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

MikeyBE
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:59 pm

by MikeyBE

Indeed. I'm curious too. The question was directed generally and to the owners who have posted, who mentioned ascending ability and not descending.

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eric
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
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by eric

I've got a set of FarSport carbon tubulars. The wheels are stiffer than I expected but mostly due to the hub's narrow flange spacing not as stiff as my other wheels. (they don't use that hub any more, the Bitex hubs they offer are decent and light). Still they're 960g and much less expensive than other options. Braking is the best of any of my carbon rims.

My calculations show that super light but non aero wheels are an advantage for races that are uphill only. If there's multiple climbs and descents between them that are part of the race I use relatively light aero wheels.

964Cup
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

I shan't be racing. This is for our annual club trip to the Alps. There will be younger men than me, and stronger - sometimes both - but I shan't be dropped on the descents; it's the climbs where I need every advantage I can get to keep up. So long as the wheels are strong enough to take the braking and cornering forces, and the braking surface is no worse than my 45s (hard to see how that would be achieved), it's all about rotating mass.

arthurf
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:13 pm

by arthurf

MikeyBE wrote:No doubt the AX wheels climb fantastically well... But how do they descend?

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I had no problem at all on the 40km descent from the top of Teide where you regularly slow from 70-80kph to 30-40kph for a corner and also regular, prolonged periods of braking when stuck behind traffic. Fine on more technical descents such as ADH, no problems with heat build up or brake fade. The braking in the dry with Swisstop black pads is on par with my Zipp's but I haven't ridden the AX in the wet so can't comment on that.

eric
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
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by eric

Keep in mind that the performance increase is small. You gain/lose about 8 seconds per thousand feet climbed per pound. Pounds on the body or bike have the same effect. The "4x" or "8x" rotating mass often quoted for rims does not apply to climbing (and is far too high even when sprinting, where there is a small effect due to rim inertia).

If you're getting dropped by 5 minutes on big climbs lighter wheels aren't going to put you up front. You'll get dropped by 4.5 minutes instead. To me that's not worth $3000.

964Cup
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

eric wrote:Keep in mind that the performance increase is small. You gain/lose about 8 seconds per thousand feet climbed per pound. Pounds on the body or bike have the same effect. The "4x" or "8x" rotating mass often quoted for rims does not apply to climbing (and is far too high even when sprinting, where there is a small effect due to rim inertia).

If you're getting dropped by 5 minutes on big climbs lighter wheels aren't going to put you up front. You'll get dropped by 4.5 minutes instead. To me that's not worth $3000.

That's why I posted this on Weight-Weenies, not BikeRadar. This is a forum where people think it's perfectly sensible to use a razor-blade to strip the paint from a $300 handlebar (or a $2000 groupset) in pursuit of a 10g weight saving. As noted in my previous posts, I'm an idiot, not a moron. I want to make my bike lighter (that's kinda what this whole forum is about, right?) but not to the point where it ceases to be functional. Hence my interest in the real-world performance of these wheels. I'm perfectly prepared to spend large amounts of money doing it (see "idiot" earlier). I'm not kidding myself that it will make up for the 20 years and 20 kilos I'm giving away to the best climbers in our crew (see "not a moron" earlier).

eric
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
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by eric

I have no problem making my bike lighter, or anyone else doing it. I personally look for a balance between light weight, cost, aero, functionality and reliability. It sucks to have stuff break in a race or training or fun ride (especially if it's a long day and you're tired). I'm willing to spend some money for small gains for races but for training or fun rides it doesn't matter to me if I'm at the top a few seconds faster or slower.

Your parameters will of course be different. I just wanted to point out that light wheels don't add nearly as much climbing speed as the internet says.

964Cup
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

cucci25 wrote:shimano c24....it's good

Ah, the internet, I love it. Did you read the thread? Let's be charitable and assume you mean the full-carbon tubulars that come in at 1160g or so, not the alloy/carbon clinchers that weigh just under 1400g. What would the advantage be over my existing wheelset? And how are they a better choice than the AXLightness Ultimates (in AXL or Extralite versions) which weigh between 775 and 785 grammes for the pair. Can you comment based on experience?

djcharlou
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:59 pm

by djcharlou

The guy just want enough posts to get 5% on starbike ... Just curious, where is your trip in the Alps ?

superdx
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm

by superdx

Yeah every post seems to blast anyone who responds. If you're looking to jack up your post count you can be nicer about it.

If you really want to improve your hill climbing buying 3k wheels aren't going to make you superman. It's 99.9% fitness and training. Your current wheels are already pretty good, Enve 45s are not a 1500g OEM wheelset that shipped for cost savings.

You can lose 1kg off your belly and that would be cheaper and faster than losing 1kg off your bike. At some point you're going to reach 4-5kg on the bike and you won't be able to go further. But you can lose another 2-6kg (weight of a whole other bike) and you'll be like 5 mins faster on any climb.

Tenlegs
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:37 am

by Tenlegs

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Last edited by Tenlegs on Mon May 30, 2016 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zappafile123
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

Nice work 964cup, you tell em'. If you wanna spend 3k on something special, then good for you. My 2c is to go for the Ax ultras, not only because they are light, but they are a little more exotic. Tell us how they ride when you buy them ;)
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by Weenie


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964Cup
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:31 am

by 964Cup

djcharlou wrote:The guy just want enough posts to get 5% on starbike ... Just curious, where is your trip in the Alps ?

Based Chamonix this time; we'll probably go through the tunnel and do some of the Val d'Aosta climbs too.

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