Nu Shoez: Shimano R321 or Giro Empire SLX?

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jspaceman
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by jspaceman

So I'm in the market for a new pair of road shoes to replace my Bont Vaypors (size 47 Wide). Two brands that I've tried so far are the Shimano R321's and the Giro Empire SLX's.

First up I tried on a pair of Empires, size 46, at the local bike shop. Price $420 CDN.
Likes:
Very light, almost as though you're wearing nothing at all.
The different arch support pads that you can place under the foot bed to fine tune the fit.
Replaceable heel pads.

Dislikes:
Limited colours. I wish there was an all black version (there is with the Empire ACC model).


Next, at another bike shop, I tried on the Shimano R321 shoes, size 45.5:
Likes:
Colour
The custom-fit ability
Price (They are $429 CDN, the cheapest I've seen them in Canada, plus I have a coupon with this store for an additional 20% off).

Dislikes:
Non-replaceable heel pads.

I've never owned Giro shoes before, so I don't know what to expect. How durable are the Empires? The leather material seems delicate for lack of a better word.

I do own a 13 year old pair of Shimano R151's that are still going strong today. They are built like a brick sh*thouse. I'm using them with my shoe covers this spring because the Bonts are too wide for the shoe covers to fit over.

My R151's are a size 46. I asked for a 46 in the R321's, but the largest they have are 45.5. I tried those on and they fit, I wasn't struggling to get them on. Lengthwise they seem fine, my toes aren't cramped. I could maybe use a bit more room at side where my instep is, but it's not uncomfortably tight, and I'm guessing that when the custom fitting is done it might open up some more room along there?

Other brands I'm considering are the Fizik R1B, but I can't seem to find anyone who sells them. The Bontrager Classiques, another lace-up shoe like the Empires, but the shop doesn't have my size. The S-Works 6 and Sub-6, but I can't seem to find them in stock anywhere.

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otoman
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by otoman

You like or at least respect stuff that lasts a million years
You like replaceable small parts.
You don't want flashy (you want all black)

Consider going with a pair of black Sidis with custom orthotics.
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Stolichnaya
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by Stolichnaya

Well, I have a pair of first generation Empires that have seen several seasons of riding in all kinds of weather and they are still holding up strong. They have scuffs from use but the carbon sole, the bonding to the upper shoe and the footbed are all still solid. Like them so much that I now have 3 pairs for road and 1 pair of the VR90 offroad. The lacing allows for a very customizable fit from top to bottom of the lacing pattern, so if our foot fits the width, then you get a shoe that does not require heat molding, which never really seems to work as well as the marketing material would like you to believe...
Note, I used to ride Sidi, which are the bellwether for durability and the Giros are doing just fine.
The gloss black Empire ACC still looks good and quite honestly, the regular Empires are still darn light, so if you want muted black, then get the regular model and/or wear booties or get a black sharpie.

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mogwaiboi
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by mogwaiboi

I have the R321 but a mate has the RP9 black and I prefer the look of those. He also has the Bont Vaypor + and said that the Shimano's are a lot more comfortable, especially on longer rides and he hasn't even molded them as yet. I had the Giro Factor and they felt really comfortable at first but after an hour on the road were like a vice on my feet. Unfortunately my feet were just too wide for them.
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Wookski
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by Wookski

The Shimano and Giros are completely different- it comes down to what you're looking for. The Giro's look better and are way cooler (for now) however the uppers are magnets for scuffs which shouldn't be a problem if they're black. Giro's in white = pro. Personally I think most cycling shoes look horrible in black.

jspaceman
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by jspaceman

About the Sidis; yes they are quite durable. I have a pair of 8 year old Sidi Dominator MTB shoes that are still in good shape today. There are some Sidi Ergo 2's on sale at the shop where I tried the Empires on, but nothing in my size. And with Sidis I need the Mega size for wide feet; which limits my choice.

The Empires I tried on were white with the black lettering. Pretty much every cycling shoe I've owned has been black or black/grey. I don't mind white, but I get the sense that the white would become discolored or dirt and scuffs would show up easier on them.

jspaceman
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by jspaceman

The shop that sells the R321s also had some all black RP9s, which I like the look of. Unfortunately they didn't have them in my size.

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Stolichnaya
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by Stolichnaya

So, what are the priorities? Fit and durability or looks?
The lasts on the Shimano and Giro shoes are very different. Pick the shoe that fits your foot the best. And don't necessarily limit yourself to these two brands. We live in an age of great selection, so try a bunch on.
Color should be secondary in all honesty. This is too important a contact point to make a bad decision.

onurruno
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by onurruno

If your're looking for stifness when you stroke, never think about Giro Empire SLX. You will feel like your feet move inside. Laced shoes are not suitable if you're looking for performance. Boa, ratchet or even velcro shoes are far better than laced ones in terms of pedalling efficiency.

benzebub
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by benzebub

how is shimano wide sizing compared to say Specialized or Northwave?

I wear a 46 in northwave and 45.5 in specialized, would a 46 wide r321 fit me?
But I could be wrong

Krackor
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by Krackor

onurruno wrote:If your're looking for stifness when you stroke, never think about Giro Empire SLX. You will feel like your feet move inside. Laced shoes are not suitable if you're looking for performance. Boa, ratchet or even velcro shoes are far better than laced ones in terms of pedalling efficiency.

I use 3 different pair of Empire: SLX, the original road version, and VR90. Pedaling stiffness is not something I feel is lacking. I've also owned a pair of Bonts which are stiff to the point of being uncomfortable, and I am not losing any pedaling efficiency in my Empires compared to the Bonts. The laces cradle my arch with even pressure across a wider area. I don't feel a specific pressure point where my shoes are holding on to my foot, but that doesn't mean the shoe moves around.

If it matters, I use a straight european lacing (but flipped around so the horizontal segments are against the tongue instead of facing out) to keep tension in the upper eyelets of the shoe. It's harder to get a solid hold with traditional criss cross lacing.

onurruno
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by onurruno

Krackor wrote:
onurruno wrote:If your're looking for stifness when you stroke, never think about Giro Empire SLX. You will feel like your feet move inside. Laced shoes are not suitable if you're looking for performance. Boa, ratchet or even velcro shoes are far better than laced ones in terms of pedalling efficiency.

I use 3 different pair of Empire: SLX, the original road version, and VR90. Pedaling stiffness is not something I feel is lacking. I've also owned a pair of Bonts which are stiff to the point of being uncomfortable, and I am not losing any pedaling efficiency in my Empires compared to the Bonts. The laces cradle my arch with even pressure across a wider area. I don't feel a specific pressure point where my shoes are holding on to my foot, but that doesn't mean the shoe moves around.

If it matters, I use a straight european lacing (but flipped around so the horizontal segments are against the tongue instead of facing out) to keep tension in the upper eyelets of the shoe. It's harder to get a solid hold with traditional criss cross lacing.


What I feel was like my foot move inside because laces are not that stiff to keep your foot somewhat fixed. I felt pain in my toes especially when I was out of saddle on hills. I never experienced with my Bonts Vaypor. Uncomfortability of Bonts something different.
If we'll talk about pedalling efficiency we first need shoes with a good wrap like mould. I never felt in this way with a lace-up. That's my story.

maxxevv
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by maxxevv

The R321 also has a wide version that is worth exploring.

Two friends who had been wearing Shimano's for years updated theirs to the R171 and R321 both in WIDE though they were on normal versions for years, they both rave about them being just absolutely lovely in the comfort department.

It seems that the toebox is just wider overall and slightly more room for the midfoot.

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arizonahalfnhalf
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by arizonahalfnhalf

I'm a huge fan of the Empire SLX's, I've had a few pairs now and will be replacing them with another pair when needed. I had the regular Empire ACC's and switched after just about riding through them. I loved the ACC's, just wanted some white shoes and found a good deal on the SLX's.

Overall, I really like the Empires. At first, it takes some time to get use to the laces. I would always tie them too tight or not tight enough, then start riding and realize it, then have to stop, unmount, and adjust. That was a huge downside to me, is you can't really adjust on the fly like you can with straps or boas. But, I didn't have this problem for long, you get use to them quickly and after a few rides it was not an issue. Also, I never felt like they lost tension throughout a ride. Just a consideration. I do prefer the feel though, you can get the tension very even top to bottom so there are no pressure points, the retention strap for the laces works great, I never have my laces come out, not a concern at all for me.

The uppers on the SLX's is quite a bit thinner, which I appreciate during the summer for breathability, but I'm sure one of these days I'll pull the laces through the eyelets. The ACC's feel much more stout and would last much longer. I've had a few friends put steel eyelet reinforcements in their SLX's and it looks pretty official and would do the job.

Another consideration for both Empire models is the lack of protection on the toe. I'm a small guy and thus ride a small bike where my toes overlap my front wheel. So I have tons of markings on the toes of my nice white shoes from the tire. I wish there was a thick rubber piece or something to protect the tip of the shoe a bit more. Certainly not affecting the function of the shoe, but it doesn't look great. This applies to both my ACC's and SLX's, though the SLX's are covered in a glossy upper material where the ACC's are generally matte, so my SLX's wipe down and clean up much easier than my ACC's did.

As far as sizing, it sounds like you were able to try some Empires on, so you're good. But for anyone else, the Empires do fit differently for most people than other models of Giro shoes and other brands of shoes. But, the ACC's, SLX's, and VR90 (the MTB empires) all fit the same in my experience and a few of my friends.

I know you said "all black" but didn't know if you saw the newest colorway with the black/green/orange... close to all black? Otherwise, I really don't think there is any great reason to go with the SLX's over the ACC's. They don't really feel any different, the weight is nice but when you're on the bike I'm not sure how obvious that may be. As far as the sole stiffness between the ACC's and SLX's, can't really say I notice a difference, but I'm a small guy at around 60kg.
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mogwaiboi
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by mogwaiboi

benzebub wrote:how is shimano wide sizing compared to say Specialized or Northwave?

I wear a 46 in northwave and 45.5 in specialized, would a 46 wide r321 fit me?


I've got wide feet and I've had size 43 Specialized shoes in the past. They were never really comfortable as on long rides they would eventually hurt the sides of my feet. I have the R321 wide size 43 and they are awesome, really comfortable. I don't really notice them so that is a big plus in my books.
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