how much does the bike weight matter at the elite level?

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spectastic
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by spectastic

weight wise, will 3-4 lbs in bike weight or aero vs non aero frame make a huge difference in road racing and crits for competing in the p/1/2.

I hear the argument all the time that "it's about the engine," but at more competitive levels, when the engine is pretty much optimized, the gear becomes more influential.

on the other hand, there's a huge curve of diminishing returns when it comes to price vs performance gains when it comes to bicycles. The delta between a regular round tube frame and a vias or madone is pretty sizable, but at 6-8x the price, it's pretty hard to justify. Plus, there are other factors like helmets, skinsuits, position, wheels, etc.

how big of a role does the frame play?

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nickf
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by nickf

Engine. Look at Sagan the guy can win on whatever bike you throw at him.

bigcheese
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by bigcheese

Is there any proof that any of the bikes used in the pro game ever really differ from each other in weight.....as in I'd assume they are all pretty much on the 6.8 limit.

hill climbers go to insane limits to cut weight though, and whether that makes a difference truly on the day, I don't know.

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kkibbler
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by kkibbler

Depends. You see guys toss bidons and gloves before a big climb, and then there are guys rolling on 7.4~7.5kg bikes on flat stages, like GCN showed during Tour of somewhere-in-Middle-East earlier this year.

spectastic
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by spectastic

maybe the pro tour is a little too far... besides, when you're that good, it's not like you get to decide what to ride anyway. I'm talking more along the lines of elite amateurs.

mattr
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by mattr

bigcheese wrote:Is there any proof that any of the bikes used in the pro game ever really differ from each other in weight.....as in I'd assume they are all pretty much on the 6.8 limit.
No, they vary from UCI legal up to around/slightly less than 8 kilos. Reliability, comfort, fit all feature higher in a pros wish list than weight. Aero probably sits above weight too.

mattr
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by mattr

And in answer to the OP, not half as much as you/most think it does.

sungod
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by sungod

it makes the difference physics says it does, same as at any other level

if the system mass (rider+bike) is 1% lower then it takes 1% less energy on a steep climb (where aero effects are less), descents will start a bit slower given the lower potential energy, but the higher velocity means aerodynamic losses soon swamp this

i.e. for two systems of identical power output, skill and aerodynamics, the lower mass system will win

on the flat, acceleration will also be proportionately slower, but that's less noticeable, and even then as long as brakes aren't applied the extra energy to reach a given velocity will be 'returned' when coasting

but in this instance i'd say it makes no practical difference, in a side by side drag race the lower mass system would still win, but in real race conditions it'd make no difference as the 'slower' one could simply sit on and conserve far more energy than was lost due to the extra 1%, i.e. it's tactics not mass that dominate

bigcheese
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by bigcheese

mattr wrote:
bigcheese wrote:Is there any proof that any of the bikes used in the pro game ever really differ from each other in weight.....as in I'd assume they are all pretty much on the 6.8 limit.
No, they vary from UCI legal up to around/slightly less than 8 kilos. Reliability, comfort, fit all feature higher in a pros wish list than weight. Aero probably sits above weight too.


I just can't see how these bikes I'm looking at in many articles or on the TV are anyway near 8kg unless it's a TT day. When I look at them for purchasing as a consumer(one can dream), they always come in at well under 7kg, mostly 6.5 or below before pedals of choice and garmin(if that counts on the weight, I'd assume so since they mostly use 1000's for no real reason as a 520 would suffice).

mattr
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by mattr

You mostly won't be looking at the same bike. It'll potentially have heavier bars, stem (for stiffness/crash resistance), heavier saddle (comfort), possibly a different layup in the frame (more weight again, but increases stiffness). Might have a heavier cassette too (saving money, some teams do this, Dura ace for photo shoots, ultegra for racing), might also be using heavier wheels for races with cobbles/poor surfaces also powermeters are pretty much standard now, it all adds up!

Just need to get a look at that GCN video to get an idea.

Cycling is one of very few sports where Joe Public can buy better equipment (or at least, lighter equipment) than the pros can use (think some of the latest top of the line bikes are knocking on the door of 5 kilos......) And it's important to remember that quoted weights for many top of the line bikes don't include pedals, and are the smallest size available. So once you factor in being 185 tall instead of 160, and having pedals, your six kilo bike in the advertising (which will be the lowest weight of x number of samples anyway) will be nearer 6.8........

bigcheese
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by bigcheese

tbf, I only see most of them being done as adding weight to get to the 6,8kg instead of being seen adding random weights around the bike to get it there instead.

I know we can get lighter bikes fairly easily, but that was never the point. I reckon most of these guys do their training rides on bikes that possibly aren't legal for them to ride on. It's there to give a fair game, I like the limit due to that, theres no real reason to be drastically over it unless you choose to be, so those marginal losses will be on you.

I like the 6.8kg, even with lighter bikes becoming ever more present, it keeps the sport grounded. Ban Garmins or at least the riders view as far as I'm concerned, make the rides more interesting again when they can't view their power throughout.

spectastic
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by spectastic

guys.. guys.. let's talk more about elite amateurs, ok?.. better to stick to a discussion that's tangible to our own experiences. we're not pros.

tinozee
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by tinozee

Same thing. It doesn't matter if it's a pro or elite amateur. The bike weight changing up and down a couple pounds won't mean squat. I can lose/gain more weight when I take a huge piss. That said, I ride a pro bike and ditch bottle before attempting a super tight kom or something, but not in a crit! It matters more if you are tiny and you do super long climbs in races.

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Rick
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by Rick

weight wise, will 3-4 lbs in bike weight or aero vs non aero frame make a huge difference in road racing and crits for competing in the p/1/2.

The truth is: NO; it will not make any difference at all.
This is because the combined effects of drafting, tactics, team tactics, and a rider's ability to "know himself" and how hard he can go at what times, etc, completely swamp the small theoretical effect of the extra weight.

That being said, there is no reason to carry around any extra weight than necessary, and I am not so confident as to want to give anything away for any reason. That's why we're "weight weenies". :)

But I also have to be realistic with myself because I see the same riders always beat or always lose to other riders even when they show up on training bikes, the lightest new wonder bike, etc..

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

the bike companies want you to think it does, but then the cyclists get caught taking steroids, motor doping etc. the fancy equipment if it works gives the pro an edge of a few seconds at best, but those can be critical seconds. Bike weight more hype than anything else
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