DOGMA 65.1 OR COLNAGO V1R

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PINARELLO OR COLNAGO

PINARELLO
16
38%
COLNAGO
26
62%
 
Total votes: 42

snowdevlin
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by snowdevlin

AJS914 wrote:Since you are asking for opinions, I find the wavy fork, chain stays, and seat stays to be so ugly that I couldn't bear to own such a bike. :-) I vote V1R. There is a gorgeous V1R in the Intros forum if you need inspiration.

Image



Ok that beauty is really in the eye of the beholder, but I can't seem to find any kind of on this VR1, except for the wheels....
:-))

My Dogma everyday!

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yeah, kind of have to agree that that particular example is probably not the best you could have presented to prove your point. Frame is fine, but setup... Oh my.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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AJS914
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by AJS914

Just talking about the frame - not the spacers.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

It's not just the spacers but oh well. This round goes to Dogma.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

AJS914
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by AJS914

What else don't' you like? The upturned handlebars? These "what frame do I buy" threads are kind of ridiculous anyway. OP, buy the one YOU like.

I just love that silver. If I ever repaint my C59, that silver is a top candidate.

Image

DavidMLee
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by DavidMLee

One for Colnago
Legend HT 9.5 RED 22
Colnago C60 Super Record
S-Works Tarmac 2016 eTap
S-Works Tarmac 2015 DA
Cervelo R3 2015 UT
Cervelo S2 2014 UT
Spesh Venge Elite 105

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Calnago
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by Calnago

AJS914 wrote:Since you are asking for opinions, I find the wavy fork, chain stays, and seat stays to be so ugly that I couldn't bear to own such a bike. :-) I vote V1R. There is a gorgeous V1R in the Intros forum if you need inspiration.
Image

AJS914 wrote:What else don't' you like? The upturned handlebars? These "what frame do I buy" threads are kind of ridiculous anyway. OP, buy the one YOU like.


Ok, I could just say "well, if you have to ask..."
But since you asked, and with the caveat that without seeing the rider on the bike and knowing his specific proportions... here's my thoughts from seeing that picture by itself with no other context:
1) Saddle jammed pretty far back in the rails (relevant to the next point)...
2) Probably about 3cm of spacers under the stem. Now I'm very against the "slam that stem" crowd if the only reason they're slamming it is because they think it looks cool. If that's the perfect fit, then go for it, and if you need some spacers for a perfect fit, then that's fine too, but the jammed back saddle and the spacer stack indicates that "maybe" the owner might be better off with the size larger frame, unless reach is a big issue.
3) The bars/levers/angle... so much here is just poor setup and compatible equipment choice. First of all, some levers simply do not mesh well with certain bars. This is one of those instances. There is really nowhere in the drops that I can see that would allow for an easy reach to the levers. He's left with essentially one hand position from where he can operate the brakes and shift easily, and that is from hands on the hoods. Perhaps there are satellite sprint shifters there, but still, I want to be able to easily grasp the brakes and/or shift from the hooks. Finally, the tilt... look up.... waayyyyy up. Now I know a lot of shimano users like their hoods pointing pretty high, and shimano levers lend themselves much more to this kind of setup than campy. But because of that tilt, it just exacerbates the issue I just described about being able to grab the levers from the hooks. Not only are they really far out there, but if you're ever in the drops you would actually have to cock your hands at an awkward upward angle just to even attempt to grab them. Lastly on this cockpit, looks like the position at the hoods is almost level with the saddle, which is fine if that's how he likes to ride, but just further suggests that maybe a size larger frame might have been a better choice.
4) And finally... and this is no big deal, but if you're going to ride with only one water bottle, why not put it on the downtube where it's easiest to reach.

Other than those few things, the bike is awesome. But when you're pointing out an example as something to aspire to or trying to convince someone how cool this frame can look, you might want to think about the whole package, not just the cool color. The pic just holding up the raw frame would have been a better selling point I think.

By the way, I really like the V1-R except for one thing, and it truly would be a deal killer for me... and that's the placement of the rear brake. Please Colnago, next version... direct mount brakes on the seat stays.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

AJS914
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by AJS914

I understand all the style points that get awarded on this forum. In the end though there is really no right or wrong answer.

On my bikes the seat usually gets pushed far back. There's just no way I will ever achieve a saddle perfectly centered over the seatpost with my longish femurs. In my size, you don't find a lot of frames with a 72deg seat tube. In the end why does it matter if the seat is pushed back?

I do agree with bars being rotated too far up and the levers are too high for my tastes. Nibali though seems to like his Campy Ergo levers pointing up pretty high so there is precedent even in the pro peloton. You could practically call seat pushed back and levers turned up high the Nibali setup. :-)

Image

My guess is that with the above V1R we have a rider with maybe longish legs and a short torso or maybe neck/back issues that necessitate a high front position. The ergo levers are probably being pushed up so high to shorten reach. This person may be on the edge of needing a custom frame. He could probably do a little better here by finding shorter reach bars and going down 1cm in the stem. That may allow him to rotate the bars down.

Or, the rider has to give up the dream of riding a race bike and get endurance geometry - like a CX Zero Evo which has a taller stack and shorter reach compared to the V1R or C60. Some guys probably see that as defeat.

Nibali looks like he has long legs.

Image

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Like you said, there's no right or wrong... well sometimes it's pretty obviously one way or the other.
Nibali's set up provides him with pretty reasonable access to the levers from the drops. Your pic does not. Nibali's hoods are not level with his saddle either. Plus, he is Nibali... he knows what he likes. And many newish riders often have no idea that things could be better or why. Usually just a suggestion is all it takes to make them either go "yeah, I thought of that but it didn't work for me", or "wow, I hadn't even noticed that, but you're right, thanks".
For your own situation, have you ever tried simultaneously moving your saddle higher AND forward at the same time? Kind of pivoting it around the bottom bracket. Ending up still with a good leg extension, same KOPS if you like that, but maybe a little more leaned over towards the bars. Just a thought, I don't know you, haven't seen you. So you are the final judge of course.

My comments on the previous photo you presented really had nothing to do with "style points", just some basics as to getting a good efficient setup. Style points are given for stuff like a nice tape wrap, etc.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

AJS914
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by AJS914

For your own situation, have you ever tried simultaneously moving your saddle higher AND forward at the same time? Kind of pivoting it around the bottom bracket. Ending up still with a good leg extension, same KOPS if you like that, but maybe a little more leaned over towards the bars.


I'm not sure if I have tried both more forward and higher. I tried more forward recently and immediately felt too much pressure and discomfort on my hands after 10 miles.

I've been running my saddle a little lower than I did 'back in the day' - meaning the last 20 years. After reading lots of Steve Hogg's site, I finally figured out that I probably have a little bit of pelvis asymmetry. When my saddle gets pushed up beyond a certain point I feel like I'm edging off the side of the saddle and favoring one side. It feels like this for a few miles until I'm warmed up and then the feeling goes away. (At this height though, nobody would look at me and say that my saddle was too high.)

In any case, I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my current setup. I am going to fit some 172.5 cranks (from 175s) so maybe I'll try the seat 5mm higher and a tiny bit forward.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yes, do both simultaneously. At least give it a try. Don't be afraid to experiment a bit. Try raising it a touch and moving it forward too. If it's lower than than it used to be that can partially explain why it may be further back in the rails. It's a process for sure.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

GeniuSH
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by GeniuSH

I'm 5'8 had pinarelloprince 51.5

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PSM
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by PSM

Calnago wrote:Yeah, kind of have to agree that that particular example is probably not the best you could have presented to prove your point. Frame is fine, but setup... Oh my.


+1

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PSM
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by PSM


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Mockenrue
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by Mockenrue

This is one of my favourite V1-r setups. One of the Wiggle-Honda team bikes:

Image

by Weenie


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