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 Post subject: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:51 pm
Posts: 185
I have been using Rotor 4130 bearing in my V1-r for about 1500 miles and they have loosened up but still a far cry from spinning freely. last several days been caught in a little rain and now have noise coming from left crankarm. Since I need to tear apart BB I'm thinking of replacing bearings. Options include Enduro (2 rows of balls which I would think would not hold up well), Kogel ( quite expensive $200.00), Lightning, and THM.
Wondered if anyone had any experience in the last 2, especially the Lightning as to how they hold up and how free they spin once broken in ?


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:38 pm
Posts: 150
I'm not sure if it is against WW policy to put MTB components on a road bike, but I've been using e*thirteen/hive bearings on my TCR for about 1,000 miles with no issues. They are under $50.


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:23 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 2196
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
There's not much room for balls in a 4130 bearing. Small balls go bad quickly. Hence the dual row of balls in the Enduro bearing. That should make for a more reliable bearing.


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:51 pm
Posts: 185
I would think with the 2 rows in the endure bearing the balls would be slightly smaller. Any contaminant that would get past the seal would lessen the durability and smoothness ?


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:49 am
Posts: 2183
Location: Denmark
Actually, the ball size in the Rotor 4130 bearings are the same as in BB30 bearings. 3,14mm, I think. The cups themselves work as races as well, so there's enough space to make it work.
If the bearings are not spinning smoothly, my guess would be that the tolerances in the frame are off, so the bearings are squeezed a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:51 pm
Posts: 185
Could be but from the start the bearings were hard to turn in your hand. I imagine do too being packed with grease and the seals. they are a little freer but the crankarms still don't spin still like with the old 42x30 bearings. That's why I wondered if the Lightning bearings were a little smoother.


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:49 am
Posts: 2183
Location: Denmark
If you want the best, go directly to Ceramic Speed. They have them as well.


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:32 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:05 am
Posts: 96
HeluvaSkier wrote:
I'm not sure if it is against WW policy to put MTB components on a road bike, but I've been using e*thirteen/hive bearings on my TCR for about 1,000 miles with no issues. They are under $50.

So it seems mtb stuff would work on road as well. I have a scott foil with raceface cinch bb92 installed. When first i found out i thought the mechanic installed the wrong bearing, and that 4130 is the only way rotor 3d+ would work with bb86. Anyway 2000 dry miles bearing still smooth, i lost ds outer race or bearing cover causing the spider rubbibg with the cup. I am about to replace it with rotor 4130, but maybe i should stick with the current bearing.


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 350
Mario Jr. wrote:
If you want the best, go directly to Ceramic Speed. They have them as well.


I contacted CeramicSpeed for the BB86-4130 press fit for my Canyon build. They told me they would be releasing this in September this year...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:49 am
Posts: 2183
Location: Denmark
Sorry, I thought they were for sale already. A few teams here are using them.


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 350
I'll ask them again as I want a set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Gien, France
I have developped 2 solutions:

-Upgrading Rotor 41/30 bearings (gold version). Rotor 41/30 has only 3 ceramic balls per track (there are 2*2 tracks on 41/30). My balls are coming from cyclinceramic, a french company that is supplying IAM and Orica GreenEdge. The result is by far better than any 41/30 tested. It's very smooth and reliable. After some rainy rides, the BB remains almost clean and there is no reason to loose smoothness because the cups are coated and the balls are premium quality.http://www.velo-perso.com/en/crank-bear ... ic_ceramic

-The other solution is really impressive and I used some quality European cups with adding cyclinceramic balls. The smoothness is amazing and the quality looks above the best ceramic standards. I rode about 800 miles on my Canyon (with Rotor Inpower 3D+). It's smoother and smoother. I'd not change, this is what I have been waiting for for 4 years ! http://www.velo-perso.com/en/bb86-frame ... rings.html

So, I have listed them on my website. Gold are in stock and shipped in 48h. The second ones need to be assembled and are shipped in 4-5 days.
I hope it'll help. The goal is not to sell large quantities, it's to share my passion of handmade products.

_________________
http://www.velo-perso.com


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm
Posts: 251
How have you validated the claim of 4 Watts saved at 70 rpm? Seems like a lot to me!


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Gien, France
petromyzon wrote:
How have you validated the claim of 4 Watts saved at 70 rpm? Seems like a lot to me!


Well, of course I have a Powermeter but I have not established a protocol that would have any scientific value.
However, the feelings with these bearings and the standard Rotor 41/30 bearings are so different that the gain is significant, a few watts, not a few 0.1W, because I cannot feel a difference of 0.5W, whereas 2-5W, yes !

I have read different friction revues and tests. They say that the gain is between 0 and 5 watts with a BB ceramic upgrade.
I have also tested a wide range of BB in both steel and ceramic, and of course different ceramic brands. All brands don't have the same quality. Chinese ceramic bearings are often a nightmare for customers, giving and horrible image of ceramic products, whereas there are small brands like cyclinceramic who are passionate by high end quality products instead of doing volumes in China.
So, my conclusion is that a Rotor BB41/30 steel is among the worst steel bearings, and the BB41/30 here http://www.velo-perso.com/en/bb86-frame ... rings.html is among the smoothest ceramic bearings that money can buy.
Therefore, the gain must be on the top of watts savings and 4W at 70RPM make sense because we compare a bad BB with one of the finest.

I'd be glad to refund any order if customer would not be fully satisfied of this product after a few rides.
This product is changing my view on Rotor 30mm products, because upon today, Rotor bearings 41/30 are so bad that they cancel all the advantage of owning a 3D+ or inpower cranks... and I have been using a 3d24 instead in order to get better overall performances on the combo crank + bearings, because there are several 41/24 bearings already available from various brands and with a good quality.

_________________
http://www.velo-perso.com


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:05 am 


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 Post subject: Re: BB 86-4130 Bearings
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:01 am
Posts: 37
Location: South Australia
The price for those ceramic bearings is just crazy, wow.

You could try carefully picking the seals out of the 4130 and flushing and re-greasing. You could even leave the inner seals off, for less drag, but it depends on how well sealed the BB area of the frame is, as to whether that will affect durability.

My lightning BB86 cups, fitted with four $5 ebay metal shielded bearings spin quite nice. They're not as free as a nice old loose ball square taper BB, but about the same as my other bikes Ultegra BB-R60.
I serviced them after 2000 kilometers, as I am concerned about their durability. I had another set of bearings ready to go in, but all four bearings were still very good, just cleaned off and greased the outsides of the shields

There is a discussion on BB86 bearings for 30mm spindles:
viewtopic.php?f=113&t=132784


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