DT Swiss rear hub 190 10/11 speed freehub query

[hjb1000]

Hi WW!

Bit of a weird one.
I've got 2x 190 DT Swiss rear hubs that I picked up cheap.
The first hub (top hub in image is a 190 series that came with a standard 8,9 & 10 speed freehub).
The second hub (bottom hub in image is a 190 series that came with a 10-speed freehub only, the special freehub that has stepped tall splines and will only take 7800, 7900, 6700 10 speed cassettes).

Now I would like to put an 11-speed freehub on both these. I have placed one on each hub and unfortunately noticed that the 10-speed specific hub is actually 2mm wider than the other one! If you look at the lefthand flange-end cap width, it is 2mm wider.
I just assumed both hubshells would be identical, but it turns out each hubshell is unique...

I have tested it in the four images below to demonstrate a standard 10-speed freehub, followed by an 11-speed freehub.
The top hub takes an 11 speed freehub with the correct 131mm width.
The bottom hub however takes an 11 speed freehub and results in 133mm width, which is too wide to use.

I have searched in the interwebs and I don't believe DT Swiss made a special end cap for the 190 10-speed hub to convert to 11-speed?? Am I right?

So it appears the only solution is that I need to find or machine up a left end cap sutable to fit a 190 hub that is 2-3mm less than standard.
Any ideas would be most appreciated cheers!!

[grover]

The fact that the 10 speed only hub is 132mm to start with is the strangest thing to me. It should be 130mm. Are the non-drive end caps on both hubs the same length? Have you put the hub in a frame, tightened with a QR skewer to make sure everything is seated correctly?

Put the non-drive end cap, 8/9/10 speed freehub body and end cap onto the hubshell that came with 10 speed only freehub body and remeasure.

With both end caps off is the axle length the same on both hubs?
What about hubshell width measure with your vernier calipers?

It could be something strange like the non-drive end-cap and/or axle on the hub with 10 speed only freehub is from a non-disc mtb hub which is meant to measure 135mm. So with a road freehub/endcap you get ~132mm as a starting point.

[spookyload]

When you put a 11-speed road freehub on a DT hub, it comes with a 11-speed specific endcap for the drive side. If you measure the 10-speed and 11-speed drive side endcaps, you will see they are different. Measure the shell width of both hubs. I bet they are the same. The 6700 specific version may have had custom endcaps. I would personally just order the correct endcaps for the spacing you want, and start from fresh. Like I said, the hub shells are the correct size, just wrong endcaps.


This chart has a descent description of the options. Click a link on the page and it will show you wheels/hub compatibility.
https://www.dtswiss.com/Accessories/End-cap-solution

[spookyload]

Double post

[hjb1000]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Measure the shell width of both hubs. I bet they are the same.

Ah well this is where it gets interesting. I have measured the 10-speed specific hub, and the hubshell is actually 2mm wider than the standard one!
The axle is the same width on both hubs.... very confusing. So the axle projects 2mm less on the 10-speed specific hub versus the standard hub.

[spookyload]

Interesting. Is one a counterfeit? I know the Chinese carbon wheels are coming with high end DT as an option.

[grover]

Hub shell being wider is super weird. I'd contact DT direct.

[ms6073]

Ah well this is where it gets interesting. I have measured the 10-speed specific hub, and the hubshell is actually 2mm wider than the standard one!

I suggest removing all the end caps, freehub bodies, & axles from both rear hubs and measure again. The hub shells should be identical otherwise as already suggested, you either have a one-off/quality reject or a counterfeit hub!

[hjb1000]

Ah well this is where it gets interesting. I have measured the 10-speed specific hub, and the hubshell is actually 2mm wider than the standard one!

I suggest removing all the end caps, freehub bodies, & axles from both rear hubs and measure again. The hub shells should be identical otherwise as already suggested, you either have a one-off/quality reject or a counterfeit hub!

I hope not!

The thing about the 10-speed hub is that it was sold quite a long time ago, around the time Dura Ace 7800 was sold (2005 era ??).

I have checked out the tech docs of the 190 series 10-speed and 8,9,10 versions, and it confirms that the hubshell is indeed different! Note the tech diagram indicates a 2mm difference in the flange-distance.

So the question becomes, is there a special left end cap I can buy that makes it 2mm less to be compatible with 11-speed? Given the fact this hub is well and truly superseded, I suspect the answer will be a resounding 'no'.

10 SPEED ONLY:


8,9 & 10 SPEED:

[ms6073]

Of course you might just not worry about it as it is only ~2-3mm difference. When I was still racing, before cross races I would warm-up on the trainer with a carbon disc brake cross bike using a non-disc 130mm spaced rear wheel and saw no ill effects over 2 seasons!

[hjb1000]

Of course you might just not worry about it as it is only ~2-3mm difference. When I was still racing, before cross races I would warm-up on the trainer with a carbon disc brake cross bike using a non-disc 130mm spaced rear wheel and saw no ill effects over 2 seasons!

Yes that is a good idea.
I just put the 11-speed freehub on the hub and put the 10-speed RH end cap (instead of the 11-s specific end cap). Dimension is now 132mm... only downside is the freehub is getting close to dropout...

[spookyload]

About halfway down this page you will see conversion kits for hubs that were produced before 2010. The include a new axle. It is only showing for 240/340/440 hubs from 2006-2010. Not sure the first year of production for the 190 hub however. If you can find the specs for the 240 in 2009, it might match your dimensions and this kit could work. It is endcaps and axle all together. They are surprisingly cheap which tells me they are not very common.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shoppin ... p?id=17013

Also, wasn't the shimano 10 only version a totally different freehub body? It had splines and ridges that required a specific cassette.



Looking at the tech docs you posted, the overall length doesn't change between models. Just the flange spacing. They should both be 130mm Built in Width and 140mm overall length with the 9mm quick release endcaps. Even with a Campy freehub, it should still be the same overall length. That tells me it is either a bearing not seated properly, the wrong bearings install (too wide), something else I can't even think of. The illustration shows a 2mm spacer inboard of the non-drive side bearings. You could take it apart and look for that. I honestly don't see any other places where 2mm could come from. Again, the overall with QR endcaps should be the same with the same freehub, and that number with a 10-speed freehub is 130mm.

[hjb1000]

Also, wasn't the shimano 10 only version a totally different freehub body? It had splines and ridges that required a specific cassette.

Yes, that is the exact hub I've got.
I don't have the stepped spline freehub anymore so can't measure the original overall dimension.

[spookyload]

Bottom line even from your spec sheets is the overall width never changed even though the flange spacing did. It is obvious your overall length of the hub is different even with the same freehub installed, and none of them seems to be 130mm per the spec sheet. I would definitely take them apart and check the bearings to make sure they are fully seated and the correct width. Something isn't right. Unless you had two side by side, you might never notice it.

[spookyload]

The only one that looks in spec for a 10-speed is the top one. The second picture is definitely wrong. Again, guessing a spacer or bad bearing.