BBinfinite experiences (with Campagnolo Ultra-Torque)?

[AJS914]

So, the OP could take off his crank and then pull the seals out of the cups from the outside, reinstall the crank and see if he still has drag. That should be pretty easy to do before committing to a whole new BB system.

[Calnago]

Yes, I suppose he could. Then we should all go slap him silly for causing much ado 'bout "nothin. . I'm thinking the drag he's referring to is a bit more than "seal drag" however. Is it? I mean, it better be.... Oh well, it was fun discussing regardless.

[bikerjulio]

The seal in the cup has to be touching the spindle, otherwise it's doing sfa as we used to say.

As for whether any of this has any impact in the real world ??

[Calnago]

That solves the mystery of why there's not a separate cup for Super Record. If you're running Super Record with the Cult bearings, then just pull the seals and toss 'em. And voila, Super Record cups are born! If you're running Record or Chorus, leave the seals. Excellent. Cult Bearings do not need seals.
I'll add a caveat to throwing away the seals in the pressfit cups if using Super Record. That being if the bottom bracket has a large opening in the bottom that could allow road grit to get thrown in there and pass to the bearings if the seals weren't there, then I'd leave the seals in. I experienced this with my Trek Emonda. The bottom bracket of the Emonda has some big openings which is fine. Also, Trek's campy BB adaptor kit comes with an axle shield to act as a seal against the elements. Since I was using an SR crank with Cult bearings I wasn't concerned with water at all and hated the idea of the axle shield rubbing on the spindle even slightly. So I left it out on purpose. Then a while later after some ugly weather I opened everything up to see how it was all doing. What I noticed that there were some significantly sized road grit particles being thrown into the BB. Even though I wasn't concerned with water getting in there, the idea of tiny small "rocks" making their way into the CULT bearings didn't sit well with me, so I ended up installing the plastic spindle shield after all. I don't notice a difference other than having a little more peace of mind.

And none of anything here really impacts the real world. It's Weight Weenies. Lol

[colster]

Wow that discucssion really mushroomed - with some very interesting opinions thrown in there. Decided to sleep on it last night, and as of this evening am now pretty much set on getting the BBinfinite soon.

The suggestion to remove the seals is a valid point I hadn't considered, but my gut feeling here is those seals are not the main culprit here. Watching that crank spin I just struggle to believe it, but also acknoweledge that without removing the seals and re-installing cups (as suggested) I have no way of really knowing.

On the subject of re-installation I had a chat with my shop mechanic today (not the same as who built the bike I might add - and no, I don't know exactly what tooling was originally used to press in my cups). He said he commonly finds press fit bottom brackets impair bearing performance, and opined that re-installing is all well and good with major alignment issues i.e. creaking, but with subtler alignment issues, like mine, re-installing cups is a very hit and miss affair as there is no tooling the typical bike shop possesses (like BB facing tools) that allow a mechanic to ensure a carbon BB shell is truly parallell.
We must all rely on manufacturers getting their tolerances right, wherein lies the crux here - a press fit bottom bracket is an interface that relies on such tight tolerances to function, but they are routinely designed into carbon fibre frames that are prohibitive of any facing tools - hence the popularity of 3rd party solutions such as BBinfinite, Praxis etc. He also added that although he hasn't personally installed a BBinfinite before, he reckoned it looked like a good solution to press fit issues.

So yes, I could knock those cups out and re-install them, but I must say the BBinfinite design inspires greater confidence in me by the fact they have done away with the wave washer. And sometimes it's just nice to experiment with your bike a bit, so asked the question kinda looking for confirmation.

Once it's installed I'll try and post a couple of links to before-and-after videos of the crank spinning (if it makes a difference, that is!).

[solarider]

Dragging the discussion back to the original question......

I run a BBInfinite Ultra Torque with 2016 SR cranks in my Cervelo. I too was sceptical about losing the wavy washer and lock ring and using loctite. However, I am happy to report absolutely no issues and total success.

Zero creaks, zero movement and I am 6ft 2in and weight 95kgs, so certainly give it some welly.

It is a great solution. Not the lightest but ensures a very accurate fit, and with the appropriate loctite is a neat and fit'n'forget option. I would have no hesitation in recommending it.

[AJS914]

Colster, you could probably remove the seals without removing the cups. At least it would be easy to try and not take too long.

[arizonahalfnhalf]

I run a BBinfinite shell on my Cervelo as well with an Ultra-Torque crankset. I love it. After using the Campagnolo BBright cups and them walking out constantly and creaking, I made the switch right when BBinfinite released the cervelo BBright design.

Its been really great so far, probably 8-10,000 miles on it. Creak free... knock on wood. Installed meticulously according to instructions. Cranks spin very smooth and fast, much more so than with the campy cups. My only hesitation with the BBinfinite shell on carbon frames is that it is pressed in super tight, which is great if you don't like creaks, but if you ever changed your mind on crankset I'd be hesitant to remove it as you'd likely take some material out with it.

The only downside I see to it is the difference in weight (100g for BBinfinite vs 20-30g for campy cups), but I'm happy to sacrifice the weight for silence.

Also, worth noting, it does come with bearings and it is recommended you swap out the bearings on the crank arms with those. But I use my stock campy bearings with it with no issues.

[Calnago]

...On the subject of re-installation I had a chat with my shop mechanic today (not the same as who built the bike I might add - and no, I don't know exactly what tooling was originally used to press in my cups). He said he commonly finds press fit bottom brackets impair bearing performance, and opined that re-installing is all well and good with major alignment issues i.e. creaking, but with subtler alignment issues, like mine, re-installing cups is a very hit and miss affair as there is no tooling the typical bike shop possesses (like BB facing tools) that allow a mechanic to ensure a carbon BB shell is truly parallell.
We must all rely on manufacturers getting their tolerances right, wherein lies the crux here - a press fit bottom bracket is an interface that relies on such tight tolerances to function, but they are routinely designed into carbon fibre frames that are prohibitive of any facing tools - hence the popularity of 3rd party solutions such as BBinfinite, Praxis etc. He also added that although he hasn't personally installed a BBinfinite before, he reckoned it looked like a good solution to press fit issues. ...

This is the exact reason you really should use a proper press WITH proper fitting bearing bushings to ensure that the alignment is correct. Even if the carbon shells are perfectly faced and square, pounding the cups in separately to each side and hoping they end up perfectly aligned with each other is really wishful thinking. It is also the reason that FSA (I believe it's FSA) now instructs you to install the crank immediately after pressing in the cups, before everything sets up, assuming you also used a retaining compound such as Loctite 609 and primer (to help with issues other than alignment that get discussed ad infinitum).
Cups sitting overnight after being pressed in...


These products are your friends when dealing with pressfit cups...

May be different numbers depending on which country you reside in.

[5 8 5]

Colster, you could probably remove the seals without removing the cups. At least it would be easy to try and not take too long.

Yes, I've done that on my BB86. The seals just pop out. They can be easily refitted. Also some grease on the axle where the seals contact could help. If that doesn't help then it's probably miss-alignment as mentioned in the other posts.

[gadgetman2000]

I'm riding a Cervelo S3 with Campag Super Record 2015 and BBInfinite.

I replaced the Campag cups after only about 1000 miles due to constant clicking and creaking, despite being Loctite secured and properly pressed in. I removed and refitted them several times to try and solve it but it was never quiet for more than a few rides. The BBInfinite solved all those problems in one hit. Worth the money in my opinion.

[carlcurry]

I'm late to this thread, but will chime in anyway. I have a BBInfinite BB with an Overtorque crankset. I did this on a Cervelo because I wanted drop dead silent on a BBRight shell. And I got that. No problems, no noise for more than a year now. HOWEVER, I did not do it because of rotation friction. Heck, I have an UltraTorque crank on a standard threaded BB that spins as nicely. I saw the marketing videos about how beautifully they spin, but that's marketing.
I see plenty of advice from forum veterans to address what may be your issue specifically.
I'm not against the BBInfinite at all - I like mine. You might look at the removal video, though, if you think you might want to remove it at some point. Bit of a PITA if you ask me.
Not trying to spoil your fun, you will like the BBInfinite if you go (or already went) there.

[FreaK]

This is the exact reason you really should use a proper press WITH proper fitting bearing bushings to ensure that the alignment is correct. Even if the carbon shells are perfectly faced and square, pounding the cups in separately to each side and hoping they end up perfectly aligned with each other is really wishful thinking. It is also the reason that FSA (I believe it's FSA) now instructs you to install the crank immediately after pressing in the cups, before everything sets up, assuming you also used a retaining compound such as Loctite 609 and primer (to help with issues other than alignment that get discussed ad infinitum).
Cups sitting overnight after being pressed in...

These products are your friends when dealing with pressfit cups...
_picture of loctite and primer_
May be different numbers depending on which country you reside in.

Don't think anyone's suggesting a mallet was used. I think the point here is that just like with headsets and a press, sometimes the combination of i.d. tolerance on the frame, o.d. tolerance on the bearing seat, and the tolerance of the guide used in the press all add up to a cascading mess.

[uraqt]

There are two issues with BBInfinite...

1. it adds back all the weight saved over a square taper BB
2. it's not easily removed.

The Wheels Manufacturing PF30 THREADED BB address the Campagnolo Ultra-Torque BBright issue and you can remove it ... but you still gain the weight.

Also the Overtorque crankset with normal PF30 BB will work in BBright as the bearing are inside the frame and not cantilevered in cups outside the frame.

[arizonahalfnhalf]

There are two issues with BBInfinite...

1. it adds back all the weight saved over a square taper BB
2. it's not easily removed.

The Wheels Manufacturing PF30 THREADED BB address the Campagnolo Ultra-Torque BBright issue and you can remove it ... but you still gain the weight.

Also the Overtorque crankset with normal PF30 BB will work in BBright as the bearing are inside the frame and not cantilevered in cups outside the frame.

Yes and no. You can use PF30 BB's on BBright and add a spacer for the drive-side (as the BB is asymmetrical), but not if they're Campy cranksets, because it would just be off center. Thus the BBinfinite shell for BBright x Campy is asymmetric, which is really the only other option aside from Campagnolo cups. There is a few threaded BBright versions of the Wheels Manufacturing shells (which look sweeeeet) but no campy versions but i have always wondered if you could use Over-Torque cranksets with those.