Descending with carbon clincher still an issue?

[Marin]

The solution to the heat issues is to use high-temperature resin and a little more material in the brake track, which is what all manufacturers are doing now.

There's no need to bolt MTB brakes to your road bike.

Mid-profile carbon clinchers are simply the best allround choice, even for going up Stelvio. If you want to run only one set of wheels, it's really hard to find anything more versatile than a 35-50mm tall, 23-25mm wide, "U-shape" set of carbon clinchers at 1400-1500g.

Aerodynamics will be excellent, crosswinds are not as much of an issue anymore with the rounded profiles, weight is absolutely ok and not much of a factor anyway, and braking is just fine with decent pads.

[Nejmann]

I think the bike companies and wheel builders solved this issue by agreeing to sell us disc brakes.

Exactly - disc brakes address the key shortcoming of carbon rims

No-one has solved the fundamental issue that carbon rims under hard rim braking will achieve a temperature that can cause deformation - it is the nature of the material and the need to use friction to stop. The braking surface and pads have improved braking performance but it is still possible to damage the rim or pop a tyre off the rim despite development to this time.

Nejmann - just curious - why would you lug a set of 404 clincherss up Stelvio? - I would have thought that the issue we are discussing, heavy rims mass and cross winds will be much more of a consideration than aero benefits(?) - particularly for someone your weight (I'm same )

Because i'm on the fence of going the disc way and i could save a wheelset?

I rose alp d huez/la marmotte last year on a set of fulcrums zeros. Don't think it would make a difference when i weigh 100kgs? Slow as hell on the climbs

[dadoflam08]

I'm totally with you on the slow climbing - but at our weight the descending is a consideration if you really want to enjoy yourself.
Fulcrum Zeros are my choice on climbs and would certainly be over 404's - less rim weight, better braking, no need to moderate braking to save your carbon rims and no cross wind distractions. Add the Campy/Fulcrum ceramic bearing hub benefits as well.
I'm no convert to discs either - yet - I'm a Campy pilot and will have to wait and see before I can decide - but with disc braking carbon clinchers suddenly make a lot more sense for climbing wheels if you are that way inclined.
Be interested to hear how the ride went on your return - Happy riding

[Nejmann]

I'm totally with you on the slow climbing - but at our weight the descending is a consideration if you really want to enjoy yourself.
Fulcrum Zeros are my choice on climbs and would certainly be over 404's - less rim weight, better braking, no need to moderate braking to save your carbon rims and no cross wind distractions. Add the Campy/Fulcrum ceramic bearing hub benefits as well.
I'm no convert to discs either - yet - I'm a Campy pilot and will have to wait and see before I can decide - but with disc braking carbon clinchers suddenly make a lot more sense for climbing wheels if you are that way inclined.
Be interested to hear how the ride went on your return - Happy riding

I sold the zeros. But i totally agree with you. But lets see how goes.

[ktw7937]

i guess all the carbon wheel doesn't good for descending.
in my experience last year, it is too slippery to go downhills with carbon wheel set, 2016 MAVIC CU.
i recommend you to get another aluminum wheel set as well.

[illnacord]

Descending on carbon clinchers matters heavily on brake pads, and obviously first and foremost, user. I found cork pads to wear out fast but put least amount of wear on rim tracks. I tried Shimano (black rubber) carbon pads and they excelled wear on my ENVEs, plus made a lot of squealing noise. I use the Jagwire brake pad setter (yellow plastic tool to set toe-in) which I've found helpful. ENVE pads were the best in performance for my ENVE rims. Reynolds pads on Reynolds rims. After descending on carbon rims with disc brakes, in comparison to lightweight aluminum clinchers, you can really tell the massive gain in increased performance in dive, angle, stiffness, confidence.

[Nefarious86]

Black Prince for hills, Lifeline carbon pads for crits, lifeline pads are soft and have good feel while being cheap and disposable if they get used on alloy in the event of a flat when racing etc.

[Kongbop]

My co-worker suffering from this issue currently.
Bike and wheel are same with you
I think the technology has moved on but not in perfection.

[corky]

I just bought some Edco pillon 35mm because the braking is sooooo much better than a set of edge/enve 45mm. The braking is as good and as noiseless as some fulcrum aluminium rims, although the Edco have yet to be ridden in really wet conditions but living in the UK means it won't be long.......

[Allen254]

i have never had problems braking with my BOYDS 44mm carbon clinchers. i prefer carbon breaking over aluminum breaking any day it is smoother braking it doesn't bite but still breaks just ass goof if needed, i don't like the feeling aluminum gives you while descending which is a biting feeling that can throw your cornering off and possibly make you fall off while descending. i've never ridden carbon wheels in the rain so i have no input on that. braking should be smooth its should feel sort of like faded car breaking but not faded in a bad way sort of like f1 racing where the breaks have to have a certain heat build up before they start braking well if this make any sense. i use boyds stock onyx brakes i love them wouldn't switch to swissstop.

[ChiZ01]

i have never had problems braking with my BOYDS 44mm carbon clinchers. i prefer carbon breaking over aluminum breaking any day it is smoother braking it doesn't bite but still breaks just ass goof if needed, i don't like the feeling aluminum gives you while descending which is a biting feeling that can throw your cornering off and possibly make you fall off while descending. i've never ridden carbon wheels in the rain so i have no input on that. braking should be smooth its should feel sort of like faded car breaking but not faded in a bad way sort of like f1 racing where the breaks have to have a certain heat build up before they start braking well if this make any sense. i use boyds stock onyx brakes i love them wouldn't switch to swissstop.

i find it hard to believe your boyd carbon brake track is better than aluminum.

[fogman]

I have been field testing my Bora One 35 clinchers by measuring the temperature and tire pressure of my front rim using an infrared thermometer and a digital pressure gauge at the bottom of several long and steep descents in my area. So far the highest temperature I have measured is 57°C (~135°F) which is well under glass transition temperature of carbon fiber resin. The tire pressure increased by only 5 psi.


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[Calnago]

That's interesting @fogman, that you actually have an infrared thermometer. I guess I'd want to know just how long and technical and how hard the braking was. If it's just a long descent without much hard braking then it's not really saying much. But if you attack something like Alpe d'Huez trying to make it down as fast as you can, meaning hard brake, then release for 21 switchbacks, then that would be really interesting. Or, use the same long descent you have at hand, but try some repetitive braking and letting it rip so you basically go from 30mph to 10mph as quick as you can then repeat 5-10 times as fast as possible. Of course, it would be a bummer if you fried your rims for a test, or worse, crashed because of it. How much repetitive hard braking were you doing on that descent?


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[fogman]

@Calnago. Unfortunately I did not test in the Alps. I tested in my area on 1.5 mile/450 ft./-6% (avg.) descents with my style of intermittent hard braking into the turn with some continuous hard braking to come to a stop. I wanted to test for my style of riding. At this moment it is not in my budget to take a trip to Europe to continue this testing in the French Alps nor do I wish to intentionally fry my rims.

I personally enjoy riding on my Bora One 50 tubulars wheels more but sometimes for me it is not practical to do so. Which is why I decided to do this testing for my own knowledge.


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[Calnago]

Thanks @fogman. Yes, wasn't saying you should go to the Alps to test, but just trying to get an idea of what you were actually testing on. They are great wheels. Haven't heard of any delamination or melting issues.