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mariovalentim
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by mariovalentim on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:48 pm
RussellS wrote:spookyload wrote:While Mavic is a hassle to deal with, I am a Salomon shoe die hard. Their warranty for shoes is painless and fast. I had to warranty two different pairs of hiking shoes last year. It was a simple form to fill out with pictures of the failures. New shoes came within a week. So I don't think Amer is the issue with Mavic...I think it is France (Look is equally hard to deal with and not part of Amer).
Salomon is a French company. So the French workers at Salomon are wonderful with warranty problems, and the French workers at Mavic are difficult with warranty problems. Maybe France has nothing to do with anything.
Correlation does not imply causation
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spookyload
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by spookyload on Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:01 pm
RussellS wrote:spookyload wrote:While Mavic is a hassle to deal with, I am a Salomon shoe die hard. Their warranty for shoes is painless and fast. I had to warranty two different pairs of hiking shoes last year. It was a simple form to fill out with pictures of the failures. New shoes came within a week. So I don't think Amer is the issue with Mavic...I think it is France (Look is equally hard to deal with and not part of Amer).
Salomon is a French company. So the French workers at Salomon are wonderful with warranty problems, and the French workers at Mavic are difficult with warranty problems. Maybe France has nothing to do with anything.
Sorry, I was making a little joke and not intending to insult. I have been riding LOOK frames since the 90s, and was having a little fun with stereotypes. I was actually able to visit the Look factory in 2011 thanks to some help from the folks at LookUSA when I lived in Germany. Though my hope was to get the old 585 a facelift, I was stoked just to meet with the good folks there. As I said, I love their shoes and am a little embarrassed to find they are from Annecy as I spent a weekend there in 2010 during the Tour and had no idea that was the home of Salomon.
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rossjm11
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by rossjm11 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:18 am
spookyload wrote:rossjm11 wrote:That really sucks, from my experience, Mavic had easy ordering and customer support back when you got to call the in MA. Now, dealing with Amer is much more difficult and the mployees seemed uneducated in their products.
While Mavic is a hassle to deal with, I am a Salomon shoe die hard. Their warranty for shoes is painless and fast. I had to warranty two different pairs of hiking shoes last year. It was a simple form to fill out with pictures of the failures. New shoes came within a week. So I don't think Amer is the issue with Mavic...I think it is France (Look is equally hard to deal with and not part of Amer).
Right, so what I was saying is that Mavic handled everything fine when their warranty and such was handled by Mavic in Massachusetts. Now, Mavic is handled in Utah by Amer Sports and it is a pain. I hope Amer doesn't degrade ENVE in the same way.
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eric01
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by eric01 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:43 am
That's interesting. I wonder how much cross company we will see. Corima and Mavic are both producing a wide range of wheels and -- at least superficially -- you don't see much in common technology wise
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kgt
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by kgt on Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:24 am
Ahillock wrote:kgt wrote:Amer sports is not Mavic. It is Mavic, Salomon, Wilson, Suunto, etc. etc.
No one made that claim. Read it again: "Enve Composites bought by
Mavic parent company"
I can read, don't worry.
That was just a comment to the "ENVE neutral support!". It's not that ENVE will replace Mavic or vice versa.
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prebsy
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by prebsy on Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:06 pm
eric01 wrote:That's interesting. I wonder how much cross company we will see. Corima and Mavic are both producing a wide range of wheels and -- at least superficially -- you don't see much in common technology wise
The only way this deal makes sense in my head is if there is a ton of cross over. Enve doesn't do alloy or hubs and mavic doesn't do carbon clinchers (correctly). If they merged the companies they could put together a really complete wheel lineup and dump all these silly mavic carbon designs plus start putting mavic hubs on enve rims and reduce the expense there.
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wingguy
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by wingguy on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:20 am
Mavic have already corrected their carbon clincher tech. You'll see it very soon.
And Mavic hubs on Enve rims? Lol, no freakin' way!
Crossbreeding and diluting the two brands would be a marketing disaster.
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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm on Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:54 am
..or maybe they bought Enve because they had free cash burning their pockets and there's hardly any better investment than to expand your business portfolio adding another, this time more boutique, brand
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RussellS
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by RussellS on Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:32 am
Guessing the parent company bought Enve to get into the US boutique market. Capture those customers. Their current company Mavic is not in the US boutique market. They do make very expensive carbon wheels. But they are not really sought after by customers paying full retail price for a high dollar bike. Mavic makes all the cheap and medium priced wheels you see on every other bike on the road. Mavic is too common. Enve brand will give the parent company an exclusive brand name to sell. At least in the USA. Mavic is not a high end brand in the US. Its a common, cheap, everyman brand in the US bike market. Enve will give the parent a brand they can sell to the boutique customer in the US. Not sure Enve has any market in the rest of the world. Maybe they will try to expand Enve to compete with Lightweight in Europe.
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kgt
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by kgt on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:21 am
I don't see how can Enve and Mavic merge in terms of design, production or technology. It's just a profitable move for both Amer and Enve, the way I see it, that's all.
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sawyer
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by sawyer on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:55 am
RussellS wrote:Guessing the parent company bought Enve to get into the US boutique market. Capture those customers. Their current company Mavic is not in the US boutique market. They do make very expensive carbon wheels. But they are not really sought after by customers paying full retail price for a high dollar bike. Mavic makes all the cheap and medium priced wheels you see on every other bike on the road. Mavic is too common. Enve brand will give the parent company an exclusive brand name to sell. At least in the USA. Mavic is not a high end brand in the US. Its a common, cheap, everyman brand in the US bike market. Enve will give the parent a brand they can sell to the boutique customer in the US. Not sure Enve has any market in the rest of the world. Maybe they will try to expand Enve to compete with Lightweight in Europe.
What you say might be right as it stands, but I think you underestimate the potential of the Mavic brand if they have the right products at the right price. Their associate with the pro sport gives them a very strong starting position, and their products are now improving significantly.
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RussellS
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by RussellS on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:27 pm
sawyer wrote:RussellS wrote:Guessing the parent company bought Enve to get into the US boutique market. Capture those customers. Their current company Mavic is not in the US boutique market. They do make very expensive carbon wheels. But they are not really sought after by customers paying full retail price for a high dollar bike. Mavic makes all the cheap and medium priced wheels you see on every other bike on the road. Mavic is too common. Enve brand will give the parent company an exclusive brand name to sell. At least in the USA. Mavic is not a high end brand in the US. Its a common, cheap, everyman brand in the US bike market. Enve will give the parent a brand they can sell to the boutique customer in the US. Not sure Enve has any market in the rest of the world. Maybe they will try to expand Enve to compete with Lightweight in Europe.
What you say might be right as it stands, but I think you underestimate the potential of the Mavic brand if they have the right products at the right price. Their associate with the pro sport gives them a very strong starting position, and their products are now improving significantly.
I could be somewhat wrong on Mavic. Maybe. But Mavic and Enve are almost unrelated brands. Each has its niche. Particularly in the USA. Maybe Enve is a wonder in building wheels the best. Best design, specs, materials, etc. But Mavic is probably 10-20-30 times the size of Enve. So they could do everything Enve does tomorrow if they wanted. And the high end Mavic carbon wheels may be equal or better than Enve right now. Don't know. I see zero cross compatibility, sharing, etc. between Enve and Mavic. They do not really compete against each other, cater to the same customers, or even use the same or similar materials to build their products. The parent company bought Enve to get a different customer base that their current brand Mavic could not reach. Improving the product or sharing secrets is zero. Nothing Enve does is going to help Mavic. Nothing Mavic does is going to help Enve. Or any harm for either one.
Its kind of like Warren Buffett of Berkshire Hathaway buying some utilities and creating MidAmerican Energy company. A regional provider of electric and gas. And buying Burlington northern railroad. John Smith customer goes to Wal-Mart and buys a bicycle that was shipped on BNSF. And the Wal-Mart has its electricity and gas provided by MidAmerican Energy. They are as related as Mavic and Enve. Everyone is owned by the same parent company.
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wingguy
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by wingguy on Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:04 pm
Yep, the above is exactly right. Mavic don't need Enve's tech, and Enve don't need Mavic's manufacturing. The same company owning both doesn't mean they're going to be morphed together in any way except probably shipping. The reason for Amer to buy Enve is that they're a profitable, rapidly growing company that Amer thinks is worth the investment - particularly if they can streamline the distribution.
Look at when SRAM bought Zipp. Zipp are still Zipp, just bigger. Or when PON (Focus's parent company) bought Cervelo. Cervelo are still Cervelo and Focus are still Focus. There's no reason to squish them together.
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mimason
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by mimason on Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:21 pm
kgt wrote:Ahillock wrote:kgt wrote:Amer sports is not Mavic. It is Mavic, Salomon, Wilson, Suunto, etc. etc.
No one made that claim. Read it again: "Enve Composites bought by
Mavic parent company"
I can read, don't worry.
That was just a comment to the "ENVE neutral support!". It's not that ENVE will replace Mavic or vice versa.
I didn't interpret your post as an intended reply to mine about neutral support. I'm not sure why you posted it now but my post about neutral support was because Mavic wheels are very commonly used as neutral support wheels in races. With the deep pockets and marketing dollars Amer Sports brings to the table is it not reasonable to think that ENVE may be showcased providing neutral support at future large scale tours. To purchase ENVE and not anticipate a larger scale of ENVE penetration(especially in Euro/Asia markets) is highly unlikely.
Last edited by
mimason on Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.