Do Aero Road Bars look ok on Non Aero frames
Moderator: robbosmans
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Umm no but it's kinda obvious isn't it?
Marin wrote:Umm no but it's kinda obvious isn't it?
No. If it was obvious, there should be some data out there to support it. No?
Regardless, a cylinder, an ellipse are all less efficient that an aero optimized shape.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."
If you're just talking abut the shape, then @Marin is right, it's obvious. If you can't visualize it, take a cardboard cylinder from a toilet paper roll or roll of whatever. Place it at an angle similar to the downtube of bike and cut it straight across level (same way a straight on headwind would be traveling). Look at the cross section of the cut area, trace it out on paper if you have to. What shape have you got?
Not as aero as a truly optimized aero shape but not bad either.
Not as aero as a truly optimized aero shape but not bad either.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
I'm not talking what shape you get with a cylinder downtube. What I am talking about is aero aspect of it. Wind and CdA behaves differently than one thinks. Eye wind tunnel isn't always calibrated correctly. Like why a kammtail behaves differently than one would think by just looking at it.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."
53x12--as the very guy harping on focusing on low yaw, you've got to be able to see that a downtube is going to be projecting an ellipse into a headwind. I mean, geometry an all? Sure, we can talk about all the other tubes on the bike, but at least the DT is going to sorta be elliptical.
Anyhow, when I made my comment about skinny tubes and aero road bars, I was talking aesthetics--chunky tubes with thicker profile handlebars doesn't make me bat an eye. Fully agree with faster is faster and all.
P.S. Think there's a Specialized "win tunnel" video where they do compare a venge vs a 90's steel allez.
Anyhow, when I made my comment about skinny tubes and aero road bars, I was talking aesthetics--chunky tubes with thicker profile handlebars doesn't make me bat an eye. Fully agree with faster is faster and all.
P.S. Think there's a Specialized "win tunnel" video where they do compare a venge vs a 90's steel allez.
Derf wrote:Think there's a Specialized "win tunnel" video where they do compare a venge vs a 90's steel allez.
Yes I saw that, but it's flawed in some important way IIRC, don't remember why.
Derf wrote:53x12--as the very guy harping on focusing on low yaw, you've got to be able to see that a downtube is going to be projecting an ellipse into a headwind.
But aerodynamics don't happen in 2D planes. They happen in 3D space. You're going to get some air flow down towards the bottom bracket due to the slope of the down tube. That's different than a straight vertical elliptical tube passing through the air, and could potentially have a big difference on the aerodynamic drag.
- wheelsONfire
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That test when they noted that different forks also has an impact on different wheels is pretty interesting.
Don't know where the link is, but it's another can of worms
Don't know where the link is, but it's another can of worms
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Derf wrote:53x12--as the very guy harping on focusing on low yaw, you've got to be able to see that a downtube is going to be projecting an ellipse into a headwind. I mean, geometry an all? Sure, we can talk about all the other tubes on the bike, but at least the DT is going to sorta be elliptical.
I'm just saying reality works differently than we think it will by just looking at it and passing it through our "eye windtunnel." As I noted above with the kamm tail example, shapes behave very differently in reality than we might expect by just looking at them. I haven't seen any real windtunnel data (visual of what air does around and after the tubes) for a regular small diameter steel frame. Yes there is the Specialized test with Venge vs steel Allez, but that doesn't show you what the air is doing due to air flow interaction. Even a CFD would be fine.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."
- wheelsONfire
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What if an aero bike would be built without approval from UCI rules. It seems the UCI standard blocks out the real evolution.
Maybe this is not interesting to the masses?
Personally i would like to see a frame/ bike built for this purpose of just being aero with no UCI stamp of approval.
Maybe this is not interesting to the masses?
Personally i would like to see a frame/ bike built for this purpose of just being aero with no UCI stamp of approval.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
^That's what dedicated "tri" bikes are, like the UCI "legal" Shiv vs the "illegal" Shiv for triathlons, which is not subject to UCI rules. Actually, I don't even know if they still make the two versions anymore, but that would be the discipline you'd see that in since that is really where the "masses" for aero reside at this point.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6280
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
I was told the fastest bike ever is Pinarello Bolide. But i am not a TT guy. Actually i would sway more towards road, gravel and trail.
It would be very interesting to ride a bike made to be as aero as it gets with no restrictions.
I kind of have a hard time looking at microscopic benefits when i know the UCI rules are hindering many things (it's what i was told anyway)!
It would be very interesting to ride a bike made to be as aero as it gets with no restrictions.
I kind of have a hard time looking at microscopic benefits when i know the UCI rules are hindering many things (it's what i was told anyway)!
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
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I just got my 40cm Easton EC90 Aero handlebars. They look great and feel pretty nice in all the positions. Hands on the tops climbing doesn't feel too awkward like I've heard the Cervelo does. They have a much shallower drop than my past bars but since I'll set them up for my drop position that'll make me lower and more aero when on the hoods or tops.