Do Aero Road Bars look ok on Non Aero frames
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- btompkins0112
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There should have been 1 reply to this post and it should have been 1 word. No.
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- prendrefeu
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78% percent of those responding, thus far, disagree with you B
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btompkins0112 wrote:There should have been 1 reply to this post and it should have been 1 word. No.
That is like saying no bike should have an arrow on its downtube.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."
- btompkins0112
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“Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.” — The Dude
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Are there any non-manufacturer sponsored tests of bars' aerodynamic performance that someone can link to.
I'm in the market for an aero bar but am struggling to believe some of the hype ... e.g. from Zipp:
"A traditional round-tube section creates drag of about 0.74 Newtons, which Zipp found requires about 7.5 watts of effort at 30mph (48.3kph) to overcome. The airfoil developed in CFD that is used in the SL-70 Aero handlebar creates just 0.11N of drag, which means a savings of 6.4 watts over a round-tube section."
Can an aero bar really have just 15% of the drag of a "traditional" ... let's say typical round tube bar?
I can see that the flat tops are more aero, as long as you are not holding them ... but surely the drops covered in tape are equally [un]aero, and are in the wind most of the time?
I suggest that most of us spend most of our time on the hoods ... given the typical 5 - 15o yaw this would I suspect tend to compromise the aero benefits of the flat sections, but leave the drops unaffected ... no doubt team Sky knew this when Wiggins used to TT with no tape on his drops.
Any thoughts as to objective reality on this?
I'm in the market for an aero bar but am struggling to believe some of the hype ... e.g. from Zipp:
"A traditional round-tube section creates drag of about 0.74 Newtons, which Zipp found requires about 7.5 watts of effort at 30mph (48.3kph) to overcome. The airfoil developed in CFD that is used in the SL-70 Aero handlebar creates just 0.11N of drag, which means a savings of 6.4 watts over a round-tube section."
Can an aero bar really have just 15% of the drag of a "traditional" ... let's say typical round tube bar?
I can see that the flat tops are more aero, as long as you are not holding them ... but surely the drops covered in tape are equally [un]aero, and are in the wind most of the time?
I suggest that most of us spend most of our time on the hoods ... given the typical 5 - 15o yaw this would I suspect tend to compromise the aero benefits of the flat sections, but leave the drops unaffected ... no doubt team Sky knew this when Wiggins used to TT with no tape on his drops.
Any thoughts as to objective reality on this?
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!!
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!!
Lots of peeps who voted YES have chimed in, but only Btompkins in the NO camp have spoken up. For those who voted No, let's hear your reasoning if you have a moment. BTW, decision against based on aesthetic grounds is totally valid as far as I am concern, would be great if you articulate why, though.
- btompkins0112
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My beef with aero bars on a non-aero bike certainly draws mostly from aesthetics. The visual "heaviness" of the aero bar juxtaposed against the svelte outlines of a climbing bike looks unbalanced from a compositional perspective. Similarly, putting wheels that are greater than 40-50mm on a climbing bike looks silly as well. I did that once on a Fuji Altamira I had and it was a short lived mistake.
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- btompkins0112
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prendrefeu wrote:78% percent of those responding, thus far, disagree with you B
Well P, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one and they all stink.
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sawyer wrote:Are there any non-manufacturer sponsored tests of bars' aerodynamic performance that someone can link to.
This is the only one I am aware of right now. Haven't seen anything recent.
sawyer wrote:
I'm in the market for an aero bar but am struggling to believe some of the hype ... e.g. from Zipp:
"A traditional round-tube section creates drag of about 0.74 Newtons, which Zipp found requires about 7.5 watts of effort at 30mph (48.3kph) to overcome. The airfoil developed in CFD that is used in the SL-70 Aero handlebar creates just 0.11N of drag, which means a savings of 6.4 watts over a round-tube section."
Can an aero bar really have just 15% of the drag of a "traditional" ... let's say typical round tube bar?
Remember the handlebars are hitting "clean air" so there is more "fruit" to gain with an aero shaped handlebar since it is the leading edge.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."
sawyer wrote:...... Zipp found requires about 7.5 watts of effort at 30mph (48.3kph) to overcome.......
....I suggest that most of us spend most of our time on the hoods ... ...
I'm guessing most people aren't spending much time on the hoods at 30mph. And if they are, they are drafting or coasting down a hill, where aero-watts saved is not an issue.
I'll bet that most of the watts saved from aero bars comes from how they are wrapped. After that, the marginal gains are probably very diluted by hand position (as you mentioned).
For me, I run aero because flat-top bars are more comfortable. The fact that they look cool (to me) has always been a bonus. The fact that they are aero is not even in the equation for my decision. I'd run flat-tops if they were less aero.
- prendrefeu
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BikeAnon wrote:I'm guessing most people aren't spending much time on the hoods at 30mph. And if they are, they are drafting or coasting down a hill, where aero-watts saved is not an issue.
Disagree with you there. I pretty much only use the drops for descending and sprinting.
Crushing it on flats or climbing, I'm on the hoods.
This guy also spends plenty of time on the hoods, even when it's flat. He'd probably disagree with you as well.
The concept that "you have to get in the drops to get low and aero" is as outdated as phrenology. Having your forearms relatively parallel to the ground will be more aero than having them bent, at an angle, into the drops.
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Agree with above.. Only in the drops for sprinting and descending ..
I can get really low on the hoods.. Actually feels more aero then drops to me.
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I can get really low on the hoods.. Actually feels more aero then drops to me.
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Most people that have aero bars aren't really looking to wrap them and if you do you are missing the point (just stick with a round or ergo bar and actually be comfortable). I know the yaw angle and tube shape have a lot to do with how aero a bike is but you can't say that aero bars don't significantly reduce the frontal area exposed while riding
GCN did a good explanation of different positions that makes a lot of sense if you are trying to gain some free speed. I can say I honestly say I use this position 50% of the time riding.
http://youtu.be/clfm0lf5Now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-s3tfhEyl4
GCN did a good explanation of different positions that makes a lot of sense if you are trying to gain some free speed. I can say I honestly say I use this position 50% of the time riding.
http://youtu.be/clfm0lf5Now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-s3tfhEyl4
btompkins0112 wrote:“Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.” — The Dude
Everyone having an opinion is vastly different than there only needing to be one opinion posted, yours:
btompkins0112 wrote:There should have been 1 reply to this post and it should have been 1 word. No.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."
dreden513 wrote:For those who voted No, let's hear your reasoning if you have a moment. BTW, decision against based on aesthetic grounds is totally valid as far as I am concern, would be great if you articulate why, though.
Aesthetics basically which means that a bike follows a certain concept. If 'aero' is your concept do it the right way. Don't just change your handlebars. It's like an S5 with low profile wheels.
BTW here is an example of being true to a concept:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=126959
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