Madone 9 H1 vs. H2

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MRM
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:15 pm

by MRM

The light blue Emonda as well as all the Madones are H1.

The orange Madone is just a larger size and has a larger headtube because of it.

by Weenie


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Skunkworks
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:25 pm
Location: South Korea

by Skunkworks

I bring some photos of Madone9 H1 and H2.

Image
Image

Image
Image

Top tube of Madone9 H1 frame is slightly bended as it nears headtube.
H2 frame is slopped but straight from a seat tube - top tube intersection to a headtube.

Without decals and paint works, I aesthetically prefer H1 frame rather than H2 frame.

HOWEVER, frame stack of H1 is 3cm lower than H2 frame.
So... I don't know which one has better looks, between H1 frame with spacers and H2 frame with slammer stem.

Dynamo00
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:52 pm

by Dynamo00

H2 and slam stem please. H1 with spacers looks ridiculous on the new Madone.

jeffy
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by jeffy

i wonder if the smaller sized h2 madones have a similar "slightly bended as it nears head tube" as the larger h1

da123
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

According to Trek technical bods, the H2 is also no heavier than the H1. I asked the question (and one about how much the u5 paint job saves over a standard paint job) and they said:

"U5 saves as much as 100 grams over a painted bike. Vapour Colour weighs approximately 20 grams more than U5. The difference now between OCLV 700 and 600 is that 700 is made in the US where as 600 is made in Taiwan using the same method. 700 is H1 only and 600 is H2 only. Weight is similar since the head tube becomes shorter with H1 but the top tube becomes longer."

If you look on their graphs relating to the Madone, the 'weight' chart also shows 600 and 700 as being equal. The benefit with 700 appears to be more compliance / slightly stiffer.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

da123 wrote:According to Trek technical bods, the H2 is also no heavier than the H1. I asked the question (and one about how much the u5 paint job saves over a standard paint job) and they said:

"U5 saves as much as 100 grams over a painted bike. Vapour Colour weighs approximately 20 grams more than U5. The difference now between OCLV 700 and 600 is that 700 is made in the US where as 600 is made in Taiwan using the same method. 700 is H1 only and 600 is H2 only. Weight is similar since the head tube becomes shorter with H1 but the top tube becomes longer."

If you look on their graphs relating to the Madone, the 'weight' chart also shows 600 and 700 as being equal. The benefit with 700 appears to be more compliance / slightly stiffer.


What do you mean, The benefit with 700 appears to be more compliance / slightly stiffer!?

If the frame is more compliant, it's not also stiffer.
I would go for H2 because it would fit me best. Even if H1 would look cooler, i would go for H2 just because of the fit.
If grams were top prio, i wouldn't buy the Madone anyway.

But if i wanted what seems to be the most comfortable aero-bike, i would.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

da123 wrote:... Weight is similar since the head tube becomes shorter with H1 but the top tube becomes longer.


I don't think this is correct. The only difference in geometry between the H1 and H2 is the headtube length is much shorter on the H1 than on the H2. The effective top tube length is the same on both, save for maybe a millimeter or so due to difference in headtube and seattube angles, if present. "Reach" is probably different simply due to where they are measuring it from as the stack height is significantly different between the two, due to the different head tube lengths of course.
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Skunkworks
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:25 pm
Location: South Korea

by Skunkworks

Hey guys, I recently received my P1 Madone 9 with H1 fit.
When you see Madone 9 H1 frame and H2 frame in real, not on the screen, they are totally different.

If you want to get Madone 9 series, You MUST have H1 fit.
H1 has much more fabulous looking than H2, even there are 10mm~20mm spacers at the bottom of stem!!

tinozee
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am

by tinozee

Get H1! Also if those are TDU pics its early season. Pro teams especially trek have endless supply of frames/forks. So I would bet that position in some of those pics could have more drop come July. Especially for those new on the new madone. It's nice to have luxury of two forks to swap depending on my condition/flexibility/injury/etc. But with a tall H2 head tube you are stuck with the big stack. It looks better to have small HT and spacers than a big Lysol can.

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

That short Trek rider has almost no bar drop.

da123
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by da123

wheelsONfire wrote:
da123 wrote:According to Trek technical bods, the H2 is also no heavier than the H1. I asked the question (and one about how much the u5 paint job saves over a standard paint job) and they said:

"U5 saves as much as 100 grams over a painted bike. Vapour Colour weighs approximately 20 grams more than U5. The difference now between OCLV 700 and 600 is that 700 is made in the US where as 600 is made in Taiwan using the same method. 700 is H1 only and 600 is H2 only. Weight is similar since the head tube becomes shorter with H1 but the top tube becomes longer."

If you look on their graphs relating to the Madone, the 'weight' chart also shows 600 and 700 as being equal. The benefit with 700 appears to be more compliance / slightly stiffer.


What do you mean, The benefit with 700 appears to be more compliance / slightly stiffer!?

If the frame is more compliant, it's not also stiffer.
I would go for H2 because it would fit me best. Even if H1 would look cooler, i would go for H2 just because of the fit.
If grams were top prio, i wouldn't buy the Madone anyway.

But if i wanted what seems to be the most comfortable aero-bike, i would.


What I mean is that I've read what is on Trek's website, and repeated what a person from Trek told me when I asked a question. Don't shoot the messenger!

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Not my intention to shoot the messenger!
I just wondered. But ok, thanks for clearing it out :wink:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

nathanong87
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by nathanong87

wingguy wrote:Or be like Cav using a relaxed bike setup for off season training, slammed for sprints, in between for hilly stages etc...


pic of relaxed off season? i know he runs higher spacers for hills, but i dont think i've seen an offseason cav pic

da123
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

My H2 Trek Madone (52cm) had to be replaced under warranty. As I was running the H2 with a slammed stem, I went for the H1 with the replacement. Exact same equipment. I'm running the H1 with 15mm of spacers, but I will probably go another 5mm down having ridden it a few times to gauge the feel. It was actually less of a difference than I thought it would be, and I really like the lower, more aggressive position. Perhaps beware the reach measurement on the geometry charts though - in practice the length of the bikes seems pretty much the same (I'm running the same 110mm bars), despite the quoted reach for the H1 geometry being quite a bit longer than the H2.

Geometry aside, and despite what Trek told me when I asked, the frame is clearly a bit lighter in the 700 series carbon H1 than 600 series H2. As far as the ride feel is concerned, it is maybe a touch more sprightly / lively feeling, but there's really very little in it. Aesthetically, it is a better looking bike IMO, even with 15mm of spacers. 40mm of spaces would be another story however...

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
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Location: USA

by Hexsense

wheelsONfire wrote:What do you mean, The benefit with 700 appears to be more compliance / slightly stiffer!?

If the frame is more compliant, it's not also stiffer.

i don't think stiff bike and compliance bike are mutually exclusive.
a bike will feel stiff if it is stiff in bottom bracket area+head tube and does not noodle(twist) around when push hard.
a compliance bike will feel softer when you hit the bump due to more compliance fork and seatstay,chainstay.
so if a bike is more compliance at seat stay,chain stay and fork but stiffer at bb and head tube then it's both stiffer and more compliance isn't it?

i didn't even talk about directional stiffness variation of one piece of material that carbon excels at. (ie: seat post that is vertically stiff but laterally compliance.)
a compliance wheels will have some give up and down on bumps.
a stiff wheels will not move laterally (side to side) so it will feel stable and will not rub brake track.
both can be in the same wheels.

a great watch about carbon's directional stiffness and compliance (later part in the video)
https://youtu.be/_4ALUyrTe90

by Weenie


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