The CAAD12 Disc Thread (Ride report, pictures, BB30A)

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seanblurr
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:47 pm
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by seanblurr

I've been posting in a few threads regarding different topics all related to the new Cannonade Caad12, I figured it might be time to just start a specific thread for all things Caad12 related. I will start this off with my own experiences, and then open it up to anyone, with anything Caad 12 (disc/rim) related. I figure this can become a more comprehensive post with input from other users instead of just me.

To start, here is a quote copied from another thread regarding my initial impressions on the C12 Disc Dura-Ace.

seanblurr wrote:Image

Here's a quick write up, there seems to be enough interest that I may start my own thread down the line with more in depth information. Some quick background; I bought the CAAD 12 Disc as a winter/training bike. My race bike is a Venge (it's on the site, you may have seen it) and I wanted something a little bit more rugged and cheaper so I wouldn't have to worry about it as much. I'm an "elite" racer, thus my primary focus is training and not weekend cruises around the lake. I use the term "elite" very loosely mainly to signify that I'm competitive, take it seriously and am not referring to sportive's or fondo's when I say, 'race'. And remember, all these are just my opinions.

When I first bought and rode the bike I made the mistake of comparing it to my Venge, and in the end I wasn't happy at all. The Venge is superior in every way, but the most noticeable aspect to me was the handling. I come from motorsport and mountain bikes and consider myself a great bike handler and descender. The C12 left me wanting more in this aspect. I love the Venge because to me it feels like the formula car of bikes. It's twitchy, precise, and goes exactly where I want it go exactly when I tell it to. Although some may prefer a slower reacting bike, I prefer the twitchy-ness. It reminds me of my shifter kart. The C12 in this regard was noticeable slower. Think of a slow mouse curser compared to a fast mouse curser on our computers. It would eventually get to where I pointed it, but it would take much more of an effort to get there. I really had to lean the bike to get it to fall in, and turn in.

In addition to the handling aspect of the bike, it just felt a bit "slow". It's heavier (close to 19lbs), the wheels alone add about a pound of rotational mass which means it lacks that 'kick that the Venge possesses making it a terrible sprint bike. This is due completely to the weight different and more specifically the wheels.

But them something occurred to me. This ISNT a Venge, nor is it suppose to be. So I should stop treating it as such, and stop comparing it to a bike that isn't even in the same class. And you know what? It completely changed my outlook on the C12. I had my fitter do a proper fit, I installed a short set of cranks (Swapped 'Dale SL cranks for my short Rotor's w/ P2M) and it is WORLDS better. No, the bike still doesn't handle comparable to a race Venge, nor does it sprint like one but in my mind it's not suppose to. And quite honestly, for the general public and even those who do race, I'm sure this bike will do everything and more. A fellow racer friend of mine actually prefers the "slower" less twitchy handling bikes as do many others, so keep that in mind. Some of you will probably be thinking that I shouldn't be harping too much on how it handles and accelerates because it's in stock heavy form right now, and that's true. The wheels are 2000g+ alone, and ultra-non-aero wheels. They are crap. I have no doubt that if I were to put on a lighter, more aero wheelset the bike would accelerate better.

As far as bumpiness goes, I don't have much to compare it to other then my Venge. They feel pretty similar, though I realize the Venge is suppose to be a pretty harsh ride. Take that for what its worth.

Moving on, the big thing everyone wants to hear about I'm sure, the disc brakes. As I said earlier, I'm a mountain biker as well (started on the dirt), so my opinion may be slightly different than those who don't ride mountain bikes. I like them. But with that said, It has nothing to do with the added stopping power. My Planet X CNC brakes (campy pads/Bora 50 wheels) stops me well enough to nose wheelie if I have to. The disc can be overkill if you aren't careful with your fingers modularity. Especially in the rain, I've noticed it is very easy to lock up the rear tire descending. I've started to just use one finger to brake so I don't run the risk of over doing it. A misconception I've noticed on the internet is the thought that disc are also perfect, they too are affected my inclement weather. Its just that they aren't affected to the same extent. Water can initially take away some of the bite, but they heat up and dry off decently quickly bringing back a good foundation to work with. I took my other bike out in the rain the other day and almost went off the road coming down hill because I was so used to riding the discs. Also disc's make noises. What brakes don't? With all that said, the biggest advantage I see to disc brakes is consistency in modulation. This may be coming from my motorsport background, but they key to success is consistency. The disc will always do the same thing with the same modulation. They don't change or falter with temperature. If I apply x lbs of pressure with my finger, they will bite exactly the same every time. Rim brakes fluctuate like crazy.

So with all that said, and after some changes, I am actually very happy with the bike. I don't see myself ever taking it to a race (unless something with gravel, or really bad weather when the disc's and 28's will help), but as far as everyday training, weekend rides, or group rides it's perfect. It's good enough that I decided to bring it to Italy over my Venge. Feel free to ask any questions, I wrote this while in the middle of something else and my have left out some stuff.


I wanted to give a little bit more feedback after doing a "training camp" of sorts in Italy last week (Totals were something like; 9 days, 500miles, 30+hours, 43,000ft of gain, to give you an idea how much I rode the bike). The more I ride the bike, the more I get used to it and appreciate it. Believe me, I definitely put the bike through its paces the past couple of weeks and it's held strong throughout.

I was a little worried at first with bringing the bike due to my initial impressions and how slow I felt on it. Considering who I was riding with, I was actually worried I might not be able to keep up and was considering bringing my Venge just so I had the best bike possible in order to hang with the guys. I ultimately decided to bring the C12 because I didn't want to travel with the Venge. I figured an aluminum bike would handle TSA's crap better. And, honestly, I wanted to get to know the bike better and give it more of a shot. I'm definitely glad I brought it!

While the bike is noticeably heavier, and I knew this ahead of time I think I almost gave myself a "placebo effect" in a way and convinced myself the bike would be, and was slower in every aspect thus making me have to work harder and not be as "fast". (I'm talking times up climbs, sprints, pace lines etc. not the handling of the bike). I think that was all total BS... Yes, the bike is 19lbs and I'm sure the data will prove that making a difference, but I never noticed it. So in the end, I don't really believe the overall weight of the bike had an affect.

Going back to the wheels, they are TERRIBLE. Super heavy, completely un-aero and the free hub is so bad on them now that if I coast with my feet off the pedals, the cranks spin with it. For the "top of the line" Caad12 I expected something better. Hopefully soon I will be testing some new road disc wheels...

The disc's were on point. I couldn't have asked for better brakes. I decided to let it rip on a few potholed/cobbled descents and release my inner mountain biker and the bike rocked. I was literally jumping it, ass off the back over bumps and cobbles, skidding and it felt like it wanted more. By FAR the hardest I have ever worked the brakes, and probably way harder then they will ever work again in their lifetime. They took it. By the bottom they made some noise, you could tell they were hot, the bite was a tad less grabby but no real issues. This experience right here is the one I remember the most from the trip, and I think is the most important about the bike.

Here are a couple of random picture's while I think about more things to write..

Image
Image
Image


Random thought:
The bike can get a tad noisy, Im thinking it might be the shifter cables flapping about inside the metal frame?

You will also notice I have a set of Rotor 3d+ cranks installed on the BB30A bottom bracket. I didn't realize it was a different BB until I attempted to install the cranks.. I guess 'Dale felt we need another BB standard? Anyways, to get them to fit I used the provided 11.5mm (Rotor) spacers on the drive side, and instead of using the other 11.5 on the NDS as you would with a normal BB30, I used a few spacers together to equal about 5-6mm and used the preload adjuster to take up any remaining slack. Seems to work fine... There is a manufacture who makes a 5.5mm spacer that matches the 11.5 (machined to mate directly with the bearing) that I will eventually get. For now, since the spacers I had laying around were not meant to go directly onto the bearing I used the Cannondale SL bearing cup (?) as the first "spacer", and then used the others for a total of 6mm. Sorry, probably confusing, I will provide a picture later.

That's all I can really think of now. Up next is the annual coast ride from San Francisco to Hollywood. I'm sure I will have more feedback after that!
Instagram @seanblurr

by Weenie


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Mackers
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm

by Mackers

I tried the next model down (Ultegra, Aksium wheelset) and was able to come to a couple of conclusions for myself.

1) Hollowgram shifts noticeably worse than an Ultegra crankset.
2) Discs aren't worth it for me (only reason why I tried this bike.)
3) The bike/frame itself is underwhelming after all the hype.
4) The Aksiums aren't as bad as I was led to believe.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

i assumed that the dura ace C12D came with KSYRIUM PRO DISC (~1535g), but seems it is the KSYRIUM DISC (~1850g)

shame to hear than the Hollowgram shifts worse than Shimano, as converting to 24mm using a praxis adds a fair bit of weight - and
the Hollowgram + Spidering looks incredible.

how does BB30a play with SRAM BB30 cranks?

seanblurr
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:47 pm
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by seanblurr

I didn't really notice terrible shifting with the spider rings, seemed to work fine for me. I highly doubt there would be much of a difference between Ultegra and DA front derailleurs in terms of shift quality, but maybe? Seemed to have been a big issue for Mackers.
Instagram @seanblurr

Mackers
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm

by Mackers

Well, the shifting was pretty good, just not as good as with 6800 (and I imagine 9000) rings.
I wouldn't call it a big issue, just something I noticed.

5DII
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:52 pm

by 5DII

what saddle bag is that and how do you like it?

CPongpanich
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:36 am
Location: Yorkshire, UK / Bangkok, Thailand

by CPongpanich

Well written and insightful. Love the colour of your bike too!

Cheers!

seanblurr
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:47 pm
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by seanblurr

I honestly don't remember what bag it is, sorry. Works fine though.
Instagram @seanblurr

nobuseri
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:20 am

by nobuseri

Nice writeup; thanks for the insight!
Cicli Barco XCr Road
Moots VaMoots
Parlee Z1
SuperX Hi-Mod Disc

glepore
Posts: 1410
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

5DII wrote:what saddle bag is that and how do you like it?

Looks like a Scion Elan. Small, holds a tube, levers and co2, but it tucks nicely away.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

iand12
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:57 am
Location: Tacoma WA
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by iand12

well written mate, great winter bike indeed
2014 Cannondale Caad10

Lincs
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:37 pm

by Lincs

Nice review, well written, I considered the same bike but eventually bought a 2015 cadd 10 black inc disk frame and built it up as I "wanted" to achieve a comparative build for similar money (that did not work!) actually I meant to build it as my winter bike with ultegra mechanicals but unfortunately kept pressing the Dura ace di2 option into my basket!. I am from a similar MTB background and so the disk option seems normal to me, however the wheel options are some what more limited. Still from your review it looks as though decent wheels will as often the case transform this caad.
CAAD10 Black Inc Disc
Roubaix Pro Disc Race
Haibike Greed RC 29r
Stumpy FSR 29r

morrisond
Posts: 1326
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

Lincs I did the same as you - I bought a leftover CAAD 10 Black Inc. Disc, I was able to get the matching special Gold Edition Hydro as well an SiSl2 Crank with Spidering. I ended up with a hodge part of parts but the wheels I had built up using some Gold Chris King R45 Ceramic Disc Wheels I had left from another project laced with CX-Ray's to Pacenti SL25 and am going to run 28mm GP 4 Seasons as this will be my rain/winter bike.

I was quite impressed with the Frame - It's great to look at - especially for the $500 I paid for it.

Gotta love the CAAD's.

In true WWW'ism I weighed the frame - my 60cm was 1432 grams with RD hanger and Seat Binder - No headset. The fork which I think is the same as the CAAD 12 Disc Fork was 437 grams and the alloy Crown race was 8g. I was impressed with the Starnut and Top Cap/Bolt - only 16 grams I believe.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

Has anyone had full front / rear fenders on CAAD12 DISC? How did it go? what brand?

by Weenie


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stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

I wonder why no one shows RD cable routing : exactly exit from chainstay and naked cable over skewer ;) in Caad 12 ?

for me it's ... disqualifying :(

Image
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