TOUR MAG AERO TEST 2016

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spartan
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by spartan

watch the f** video. 1989 final tt. one guy embraces silly tri bars to win the greatest tdf ever. the other does not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvwtOQYQ-E
every pro in the peloton rides aero wheels. why?


cyclespeed wrote:Surely the fact that the Tour de France Top 10 are all so close to each other after about 90 hours of riding discredits somewhat the aero frame theory.

Because if some of the marketing is to be believed, then there are 'minutes' on offer when riding for an hour at 40km/h on an aero frame.

So even if we say only 5 seconds advantage per hour, that would still be 450 seconds or 7 and a half minutes over the whole Tour. I don't see anyone gaining that kind of advantage....?
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Awesome video by the way! Loved it!
You can't discredit aeroness in individual timed events for sure, but their effectiveness in a group race and the peloton is drastically mitigated by the nature of group riding. Just don't let the aero guy get ahead of you. Suck that wheel and watch him grovel. Lol. Unless of course he's simply a much stronger rider than you, in which case it's back to the training routines if you want to hang, bike choice be damned.


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Stalkan
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by Stalkan

What about in a break? You take your turn burning more wattage than you need to while the other guy does the same speed for less (you admitted as much). Wonder how that sprint or late move is going to work out for you....lol

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Well, an all out break means the breakaway is doing a whole lot more work than the guys in the main group. And sometimes it succeeds. But mostly not, depending upon how much the main group cares about who is actually in the break. Thing is, if it's someone you're worried about, you don't let them get that break in the first place. Suck their wheel. If they're that much stronger than you then they will drop you anyway. But if the only difference between the two of you is the bikes, then just have a giggle to yourself as they try to drop you with their aero bike. Either way, once the break is caught they generally get spit out the back as the sprinters do their thing. But they enjoyed being out in front for a while. So they had fun too. :). It's a win win.


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kgt
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by kgt

Calnago, just let it go... these guys obviously think that they are smarter than Contador, Quintana, Sagan, Nibali, Aru and other top professionals that prefer normal frames, traditional bar-stem combos, low or mid profile wheels, non-aero helmets etc. etc...

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ha, I'm totally ok with aero and realize it's hugely important, and truly it is king in an individual event. Hence we have very specialized tt bikes, as uncomfortable as hell to ride for long periods of time, but worth it if you're trying to save seconds so long as you're trained to ride in that position for an extended time. But so not worth it if you've got this big sloth of a guy on your wheel enjoying the much greater benefits simply from drafting. It's just that in a group the bike itself is such a small part of the equation that it's pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of a world tour.
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BeeSeeBee
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by BeeSeeBee

kgt, I don't see Froome on your list, is he on an aero frame or not? And Sagan doesn't use an aero frame?
But this is what love about you, you're the perfect heel for the anti-aero argument, coming up with wildly fallacious, easily disprovable arguments! :beerchug:

Stalkan
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by Stalkan

Calnago wrote:Well, an all out break means the breakaway is doing a whole lot more work than the guys in the main group. And sometimes it succeeds. But mostly not, depending upon how much the main group cares about who is actually in the break. Thing is, if it's someone you're worried about, you don't let them get that break in the first place. Suck their wheel. If they're that much stronger than you then they will drop you anyway. But if the only difference between the two of you is the bikes, then just have a giggle to yourself as they try to drop you with their aero bike. Either way, once the break is caught they generally get spit out the back as the sprinters do their thing. But they enjoyed being out in front for a while. So they had fun too. :). It's a win win.


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sigh....they're not trying to drop you. They want you there helping them get to the point where they will drop you and out sprint you since your pulls expended more energy than theirs.....and if you suck their wheel they won't work and the break will fail and you again spent energy for no reason getting in the break. I think you have some strange idea in your head that anyone on an aero frame thinks they're FC all of a sudden, but that's normally not the case. Many are just checking all the boxes: aero wheels, aero kit, aero bars, aero helmets why not an aero frame? Now if your point is that there are guys/gals that buy aero frames thinking they will be FC all of a sudden and ride dudes off their wheels, then yeah, those guys are schmucks. But wouldn't that logic apply to all the aforementioned aero gear? Therefore, anyone rocking a proper fitting kit and aero wheels of any sort, are there trying hopelessly to ride folks off their wheels? I have to wonder if you would fall in that category.

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kgt
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by kgt

BeeSeeBee wrote:I don't see Froome on your list

Poor Froome, he just lost La Vuelta from Quintana, a guy riding a normal frame. Can you believe it?

BeeSeeBee wrote:And Sagan doesn't use an aero frame?:


True, he keeps his normal frame for the important races :)

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Now tell me about Contador, Aru, Quintana, Nibali etc. Waiting for your illumination.

jorisee01
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by jorisee01

Sagan only became world champion on a Cervelo s3


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LetsRide
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by LetsRide

Who need to care about aero ?

- Sprinter : for flat stages, sprinters with aero bikes, aero wheelsets, aero helmets, aero skinsuits, .. or even overshoes, are prevalent nowadays

- Domestique : pulling the group most of the time. Aero bike with deep aero wheelsets are common in flat stages.

- TT flat stage : everyone go solo with no drafting allowed. Fully equipped aero bikes, components and apparels are chosen by everyone.

- Mountain stages : riders usually look for a light and stiff bike that climb well. Aero is a plus since aero is not a major factor unless they can climb at very high speed or climb against strong headwinds.

- GC riders : obviously GC riders are climbers. Decisive stages are usually in mountains for Grand Tour. Again, light and stiff are major factors of bike choice.

I don't think GC riders need to care much about aero bike in flat road stage since GC riders do not pull the group. GC riders are typically not sprinters. They just stay drafting all the time and save energy for their moments. Even in the chase group or breakaway, GC rider stay behind a few domestiques unless something goes wrong or not as plan.

For anyone who's against aero so much, do not go drafting in the group. Try pulling the group all the time or go solo and try to outpace the group. Let's see if you miss aero :D

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cyclespeed
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by cyclespeed

spartan wrote:watch the f** video. 1989 final tt. one guy embraces silly tri bars to win the greatest tdf ever. the other does not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvwtOQYQ-E
every pro in the peloton rides aero wheels. why?


cyclespeed wrote:Surely the fact that the Tour de France Top 10 are all so close to each other after about 90 hours of riding discredits somewhat the aero frame theory.

Because if some of the marketing is to be believed, then there are 'minutes' on offer when riding for an hour at 40km/h on an aero frame.

So even if we say only 5 seconds advantage per hour, that would still be 450 seconds or 7 and a half minutes over the whole Tour. I don't see anyone gaining that kind of advantage....?


We're not talking about TT's and we're not talking about aero wheels, but rather, aero frames.

I'm quite aware that in the bunch aero isn't so important, but why is it then that in this year's TdF, on multiple occasions, riders in breaks of 2, 3, 4, 5 riders, etc. were on non-aero bikes like the Tarmac, SuperSix Evo, etc. If they're at such a massive disadvantage to the S5 riders, then why even bother trying to get in the break? Doomed to failure surely? No pro can fight it out with another pro if the latter has a 50W aero advantage.

I 'get' the aero thing - I have aero wheels and handlebar on my Tarmac. But the frame is more complex, as there are cons as well as pros with aero frames, and the gains are highly dependent on where you put your body. (less so with bars and wheels.)

For stage racing like TdF, with hills, bends, braking, bumps, etc. etc. many riders are still choosing to ride non-aero bikes; there must be a reason for this, and I don't buy the tired old 'that's what they're told to ride' argument. The 'plus' factors of a non-aero frame are outweighing the pluses of the aero one in certain situations.

In your opinion, in what year will we no longer see non-aero bikes in the TdF?

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kgt
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by kgt

spartan wrote:watch the f** video. 1989 final tt. one guy embraces silly tri bars to win the greatest tdf ever. the other does not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvwtOQYQ-E


In terms of the front wheel (where aero matters) one can see that the winner rides a traditional box rim-round spokes wheel while ' le professeur' is on a disc wheel. So, is a box rim front wheel more aero thatn a disc?...

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justkeepedaling
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by justkeepedaling

kgt wrote:
spartan wrote:watch the f** video. 1989 final tt. one guy embraces silly tri bars to win the greatest tdf ever. the other does not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvwtOQYQ-E


In terms of the front wheel (where aero matters) one can see that the winner rides a traditional box rim-round spokes wheel while ' le professeur' is on a disc wheel. So, is a box rim front wheel more aero thatn a disc?...

Image

Image


Aerobars are worth more than anything you could ever do to wheels.

Also, Froome almost got Quintana despite crushing the Tour and participating in the Olympics.

There are some other professional names you miss out on. Steve Cummings, Mark Cavendish, Edvald Boassen Hagen, Kittel, half the Katusha team, half the Movistar team, the whole Dimension Data team, and half the Sky team.

There is a lot more to bike racing than just GC riders, and even then, the top GC riders of DD and Sky ride aero. Note how the two most data oriented teams in the peloton are riding aero bikes

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Calnago
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by Calnago

justkeepedaling wrote:[Aerobars are worth more than anything you could ever do to wheels.


Totally agree with this, in that it's really all about position, position, position. The bike itself is way down the list behind position. But to the extent it allows you to get in that position, like a tt bike does, then its benefit is undeniable.
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