Has anyone broken a 2015 Super Record rear derailleur yet?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

To you guys that think your derailleur cage is "bent", could you please describe exactly how it is bent, say from looking at it from behind. Is it bent in the horizontal plane or the vertical plane and is there a tendency for the chain to want to derail off the lower pulley, to the inside, as if the lower pulley were splayed outwards in the horizontal plane. In other words, as the chain comes into the lower pulley of the derailleur, particularly in the crossed position (small ring up front, smallest sprocket at the back), does the pulley kind of want to ride up on outer plates of the chain to the point of jamming things up? Hard to explain but you'll probably know what I'm trying to describe if this is what's happening. Thanks.
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mattr
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by mattr

If its anything like the one i tried to fit this summer, the bottom jockey is bent a couple of degrees towards the centreline of the bike, so effectively, the axes of the two bolts cross some 2 or 3 metres to the left of the bike.
Makes indexing "interesting".
It went back to the shop he bought it from for examination, they tried to install as there was apparently nothing wrong with it :roll: , failed to get it to index cleanly, and replaced the mech, then it worked fine, no idea what happened with campag/the importer. But the new mech is bang on straight.

Have also seen a current ultegra (6800) bent in exactly the same way, that took 10 seconds to tweak straight and is still going strong. I think it *might* have been crashed though. The SR was fresh out of the box.

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by graeme_f_k

For information - there has "always" been a slight and deliberate twist in the 11s Jockey cage - in 2009, we had any number of consumers / shops tell us that they had a "problem rear derailleur" when the RD was initially launched - I'm still using my 2009 SR RD which was the customer's original one, where we replaced as a gesture of goodwill, it's done 50,000 - odd km since and is still shifting fine ...

It's only the upper part of the 11s RDs in 2015 that has actually changed completely, the cage is still (almost) the same, the difference is in the inner plate only to reduce the risks of snagging against the spokes.

Shiny Bikes - If a user has purchased a derailleur from any retailer and the retailer should close, the option exists to send it direct to the SC. Usually the SCs are not set up to be consumer-facing but in exceptional circumstances such as a retailer closing it's doors, most of the SCs will take the case up direct (we do in the UK for sure) ... so Skidmark, please PM me and let's get you sorted ...
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mattr
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by mattr

So why wasn't that made clear in the manual? I couldn't find any reference to a deliberate twist in the one i had in front of me.

The bike must have had some other issue. No idea where the shop got a straight mech from, unless they tweaked it first and didn't tell the customer.......

Ah well.

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by Bridgeman

graeme_f_k wrote:For information - there has "always" been a slight and deliberate twist in the 11s Jockey cage - in 2009, we had any number of consumers / shops tell us that they had a "problem rear derailleur" when the RD was initially launched - I'm still using my 2009 SR RD which was the customer's original one, where we replaced as a gesture of goodwill, it's done 50,000 - odd km since and is still shifting fine ...

It's only the upper part of the 11s RDs in 2015 that has actually changed completely, the cage is still (almost) the same, the difference is in the inner plate only to reduce the risks of snagging against the spokes.

Shiny Bikes - If a user has purchased a derailleur from any retailer and the retailer should close, the option exists to send it direct to the SC. Usually the SCs are not set up to be consumer-facing but in exceptional circumstances such as a retailer closing it's doors, most of the SCs will take the case up direct (we do in the UK for sure) ... so Skidmark, please PM me and let's get you sorted ...


When I first purchased and assembled my rear derailleur, it shifted pretty well, for a first gen 11 speed iteration. I can tell you, that over time the twist became more prominent, until the increasingly poor shifting just became unbearable. No amount of hanger adjustment would help.

The 2015 Chorus cages have coplanar inner race mating surfaces, in other words, no twist or bias. The shifting with this derailleur continues to be fantastic!

BlackMadone
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by BlackMadone

Post a picture of your derailleur, I have a problem shifting into my 11t. Its snappy all the way down and then on 11t it can take up to 4 revolutions to get it to shift.

sawyer
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by sawyer

This is an interesting thread

I fitted a 2015 Record rear to a new frame (Canyon Aeroad SLX) earlier this year. The mech looked bent and chain was touching the inside plate of the cage on the bike side ... only very very slightly, but if you looked at it from behind and turned the cranks slowly you could see the lower pulley was offset considerably, and hear and see a slightly brushing of the chain on the plate

I took it to my LBS who said it was the hanger. I think they mis-diagnosed this tbh. Anyway, I replaced the hanger but the problem persisted. The LBS asked if the RD had been knocked, which it hadn't AFAIK. So I then returned the RD and received a replacement from the retailer (I paid an upcharge to upgrade to SR). It still looked bent so I took it to Canyon to check the frame alignment (fine) who called Condor (Campag ProShop) who said it was designed this way. Canyon were really helpful I must say.

Graeme from Campag on this board was also very helpful. It is great to have him here for us Campagnolo devotees

I haven't used the bike for a while (winter) but AFAIK the rubbing has gone - I realized after being in the top 4 at Ronde Picardie it can't be slowing things too much ;-) I'll check it again at some point.

The design is meant to improve shifting. It may well do that. I do think the tolerance around the lower pulley, cage and chain is very very tight ...

All that said, things will have to get much worse for me to go back to Shimano (I put 9000 on a bike for two months last year and couldn't bear those jumbo shifters :wink: ) ...
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chalkie
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by chalkie

https://www.flickr.com/photos/103539683@N04/23489730296/in/dateposted-public/
This is what my derailleur looks like. Hanger is brand new. Indexing has indeed been tricky.

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bikerjulio
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by bikerjulio

Saying that the hanger is new does not mean it's aligned. Has it been checked?

I looked at both my 11-spd RD's - Chorus and Athena. The both hang nice and straight - not angled in. There is a noticeable twist to the lower jockey - clockwise looking down. Shifting is excellent on both and has stayed good for several years.
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skidmark
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by skidmark

Ladies and Gents, I have an update on this:

As suggested by a few, it was cables. My bike is an S Works Tarmac, and was cabled using the California Cross method. The Specialized documentation says this is fine, but the extra turns the cables have to make in that set up is a bit too much for the spring in my Super Record rear derailleur. This meant that, despite the fact that the cables were relatively new, i was experiencing a friction which was holding up the cable when i wanted to shift to a smaller sprocket.

I have now put another set of cables in, this time in via the conventional way (the rear mech cable enters the frame on the right hand side), and my shifting is now perfect, and silent. I am very, very happy on my bike again.

Now - the derailleur dos still lean towards the spokes a little bit, and that's something I will continue to keep an eye on. Campagnolo have been very supportive and offered to take the derailleur in to be tested - but before i sent it, they suggested i check for a few potential common set up errors first. The California Cross was one of those common set up 'do nots' for Campagnolo, and reverting back to the classic routing solved my problem in this case.

Graeme from Velotec was so helpful with this issue. His knowledge of the brand he works for is fantastic and I can't thank him enough for his time.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Skidmark: Thanks for taking the time to update us on this. Sometimes threads get started, and maybe the OP gets his/her issue resolved, or not, but you never hear the outcome. So thanks.
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by beanbiken

Yes good form, thank you for telling us of your solution :up:
Glad to hear that it is shifting as designed
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sugarkane
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by sugarkane

I have had to replace 2 chorus 2015 units that were brand new because there was too much twist in the alloy jockey cage and the lower jockey wheels not tracking well.. Both were replaced by the distro no issues.

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

mattr wrote:So why wasn't that made clear in the manual? I couldn't find any reference to a deliberate twist in the one i had in front of me.

The bike must have had some other issue. No idea where the shop got a straight mech from, unless they tweaked it first and didn't tell the customer.......

Ah well.


In a way, there's no reason *to* make such things clear in the manual ... they are as they are, for a reason. No manufacturer has the time or space to give chapter and verse in consumer documentation for every part of the design. Even the printed technical documentation from the factory that ASCs get can't tell us everything that we *might* want or need to know at some point ... that's why we have a direct line to the factory and what a good retailer is for - if you hit an issue and need an explanation, ask your retailer - if they don't know, the good ones will contact the ASC ... and if the ASc doesn't know, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll want to know for next time the question is asked, so they *will* address a query to the factory.

So on that note, out of interest and further to this thread, I've been doing some digging ...

I can only re-iterate, the slight twist has always been there - I spoke with the guys in R and D at the factory and they confirmed my memory - I then revisited some old warranty / goodwill mechs that we still have here, from the 2009 generation - we have four or five. All had a slight twist, as commented - on assembly, all shifted fine, no noise - unfortunately in 2009, we didn't have time to make that practical check - but maybe in the current context it's fortunate as if we'd had time to make those checks in '09, we'd not have replaced those RDs so I wouldn't have them here to look at ...

One thing that I have seen (and this is my own observation, not a factory technical note) is an occasional degradation of the o-rings in the upper pivot assembly. This allows, in the very few cases I've seen it, more "float" in the upper pivot than the o-rings should should. This can lead to the RD leaning in "towards" the rear wheel slightly, despite the hanger being // to the cassette and also, as the stress on the RD is also tends to twist it from side to side, it can make the RD as a whole appear to be twisted off-line. Generally the problem appears to be a long-term one and associated with softening of the material of the o-ring, I'd speculate as a result of a lot of exposure to fine mineral oil aerosol.

Some will also be aware, as it's a granny-and-egg-sucking scenario for those that know but is news to those that don't, the hanger needs to be co-planar with the cassette, so not only should it be accurately aligned "vertically" but also "horizontally" - and often times in adjusting the vertical "trueness" of the hanger, a horizontal error can be introduced ... and it's nothing like as obvious to the unassisted eye. I've seen an awful lot of mechanics over the years check vertical but not that many check horizontal ... that may and may not be part of the problems discussed here but for sure it's worth a check.
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BlackMadone
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by BlackMadone

@Graeme- Do you know a reason why a 2015 rear mech can shift snappy and quick threw the entire cassette but has a problem shifting into the final smallest sprocket and only on the 53T chainring? I'm running a 53/34 and on the 34-it goes in fine but it sits toward the inside of the chain and is not centered on the sprocket.

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