KMC chain sticky crap

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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

O.K someone had better explain to me how my KMC X10-SL chain on my 29er which gets ridden though lots of mud never has any black sticky crap on it. In fact it is always clean I never have to clean it.

I dont remove the factory grease and I apply Rock n roll extreme lube. Maybe all the time you folk spend cleaning your chain is just wasted time just a thought.

TheKaiser
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by TheKaiser

bm0p700f wrote:O.K someone had better explain to me how my KMC X10-SL chain on my 29er which gets ridden though lots of mud never has any black sticky crap on it. In fact it is always clean I never have to clean it.

I dont remove the factory grease and I apply Rock n roll extreme lube. Maybe all the time you folk spend cleaning your chain is just wasted time just a thought.


Rock n Roll has some pretty effective solvents in it, so if you begin applying that shortly after you put the chain into service and wipe down after application you may be, in effect, "degreasing" it as you go along.

Also, the OEM sticky crap may actually be well suited to very wet conditions like you see in the U.K. as it will prevent wash off about as effectively as anything, and repel water. In dryer conditions it can grab onto any particulates though and not let go, leading to gooey black buildup.

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BRM
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by BRM

People degrease a new chain complete because they have "strong" reasons to do this.
Like: "it feels heavy" and other belly thoughts. They never come with logical explenations.

-I never have seen pro teams degreasing a chain before using . . . . hmm
-Also brands like KMC has maintenance recommendations on their site and they recommend NOT to degrease.
-Campagnolo which goes for an flawless as possible drivetrain (example: pin chains instead of using missing links) doesn't recommend degreasing.

So what is going on in the minds of those pseudo-engineers here that stand firmly in their thoughts to degrease you may ask?

You want a good lubrication INSIDE your chain and the grease it comes with sits inside your chain and gives the best lubrication possible.

Lubrication on a bikechain is there to:
-Protect the metal from corrosion.
-Limit the friction
-Limit the wear

Totally Degreasing a NEW chain is not an upgrade but a downgrade:
You move the grease out the inside and what you put back is not penetrating good enough in the first place. So most likely the chain wil wear quicker than necessary. Also degreasers often attack the metals and forms hairline cracks, increases possible breaking.

The only reason to degrease a chain is when pollution on the inside becomes an issue. However there are many modern lubes that pushes out pollution. So these lubes decrease that need drastic.

Degreasing a new chain: NO
Degreasing a used chain: Depends on the condition

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KMC recommendations:

•Clean your chain after every ride, especially after riding in the wet.
•Always use a piece of dry cloth to clean the chain.
•Do not forget the sprockets, front changer and derailleur pulleys.
•To remove mud or sand, use the bristle brush (which comes with every 120ml packing of KMC’s chain lube Pro), use light soapy warm water, if necessary.
Do not use acidic or alkali based detergents (such as rust cleaners), these can damage the chain and may cause breakage.
Do not dip your chain in (aggressive) degreasers - they remove the remaining grease from the chain’s bearings, and may cause cracks. They are also bad for our environment.
•If the chain is really dirty and difficult to clean, besides using a brush for the inside, try putting some solvent on a cloth and use it to clean the chain’s exterior.
Try to avoid a so-called ‘chain washing machine’ in combination with solvent. This will instantly ruin your chain.
•Some lubricant brands advise you to completely degrease the chain, KMC does not recommend this.


Source: http://www.kmcchain.eu/MAINTENANCE

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Kayrehn
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by Kayrehn

^ This. This whole thread is rather pointless when the manufacturer already gave specific instructions not to do that.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ha! This is kinda like religion a bit. Truth is, if you don't degrease your new chain, it will be fine because it doesn't take that long for it to be completely worn off anyway. But it may make sense if the manufacturer of your favorite lube wants some "clean" steel for their lube to bond to. It just speeds up the time by a little bit that it takes to get to that stage. I've never found that a particular lube actually increases the life of a chain. But I think regular maintenance does. Basically just keeping the gritty dirt which causes the most wear out of it. Whether you use soap and water or powerful degreasers is a personal thing. I use soap and water with the lube I use and just remove the grunge. Never completely strip it. In fact it still feels very "waxy" after a "clean". Campy used to (years ago) recommend cleaning their chains with kerosene, not powerful degreasers, because the kerosene still left and had some lubrication properties of its own and did not completely strip the chain squeaky clean. They removed that from their literature probably for environmental reasons as kerosene isn't the most friendly substance in that regard. I don't think there is a right or wrong way with this as long as common sense is used taking into account the conditions you ride in, the lube you like to use, how often you clean your chain, and when you replace it (at its minimum replacement indicators, or whether you run that sucker till it stretches off the big ring).
Maybe it's like the decision and beliefs people hold when aging (or not) tubulars. All good.
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by Zigmeister

Since it has been prove that removing the grease and lubing it with a different solution reduces drag, then you should. The manufacturers aren't necessarily in the game of opening themselves up to issues/problems. They just take a stance with no evidence (like friction facts has) that the grease for most, isn't an issue, but it have been proven otherwise, and Wiggins used a specially prepped chain for his hour record, even if it only gained him 2w, it could have allowed him to go 50m further during the hour things like this.

Do what you want people, it is your chain, but you also on the other hand go completely overboard and nuts about bike weights/component weights etc on this forum, hence the weight weenie title, only to realize you are carrying 3lbs of water on your bike on a ride, but are really concerned about 50gms of weight on a saddle/stem that might snap in half during a sprint causing you real potential harm and injury....irony?? Yes...indeed.

TheKaiser
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by TheKaiser

BRM wrote:People degrease a new chain complete because they have "strong" reasons to do this.
Like: "it feels heavy" and other belly thoughts. They never come with logical explenations.

-I never have seen pro teams degreasing a chain before using . . . . hmm


I don't disagree with you, however before people go copying what pros do, then they should also remember that pro mechanics often clean bikes with power washers and drive trains with diesel, often on a daily basis, and replace parts without a second thought, long before an average consumer would consider the part worn out. Again, I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that modeling ourselves on 1 aspect of pros methods may not be wise unless you consider the whole picture.

For that matter, I have seen photos of Contador's mechanic literally "greasing" his chain, i.e. rubbing bearing grease into each link by hand, so they certainly don't shy away from sticky lube. Then again, he is a really old school guy, and isn't making data driven decisions like Sky.

Dez33
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by Dez33

BRM wrote:-I never have seen pro teams degreasing a chain before using . . . . hmm


They probably get them unlubed similar to how Squirt Lube get there KMC chains. In any case they certainly don't run them with the manufacturer protectant on them.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

To clarify I leave the factory lube on and ride until I here squeezing then I apply some rock n roll. When I do lube the chain is still clean. The Rock n roll keeps it that way until it's worn.

Degreasing the chain before luring if you think about it is like taking perfectly good icing of a cake only to reapply it. Why bother. You lot have to much time on your hands.

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BRM
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by BRM

Dez33 wrote:
BRM wrote:-I never have seen pro teams degreasing a chain before using . . . . hmm


They probably get them unlubed similar to how Squirt Lube get there KMC chains. In any case they certainly don't run them with the manufacturer protectant on them.


Noone discuss the protection grease,
We discuss the grease IN the chain, not the "storage" grease on the outside. :?

Dez33
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by Dez33

BRM wrote:
Dez33 wrote:
BRM wrote:-I never have seen pro teams degreasing a chain before using . . . . hmm


They probably get them unlubed similar to how Squirt Lube get there KMC chains. In any case they certainly don't run them with the manufacturer protectant on them.


Noone discuss the protection grease,
We discuss the grease IN the chain, not the "storage" grease on the outside. :?


Normally only used by the mechanics when raining. It's like a light vaseline type grease they use on the outside of the chain in addition to the regular lube.

budgetweenie
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by budgetweenie

BRM wrote: Also degreasers often attack the metals and forms hairline cracks, increases possible breaking.



How would detergent or petroleum solvents damage metal? New one on me...

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BRM
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by BRM

budgetweenie wrote:How would detergent or petroleum solvents damage metal? New one on me...



Its especially refering to aggressive degreasers.

How it works?

A corrosive substance is one that will destroy and damage other substances with which it comes into contact. It may attack a great variety of materials, including metals.

Examples of corrosive substances are: Acid, Alkaline, Chloride.
(These are often found in degreasers)

A modern bikechain is made light, less material, hollow pins etc. Wich makes it pretty vulnerable. A little damage can have huge effect on reliability. Corrosion can cause haircracks or when there are already haircracks corrosion easily can make it lot worse.

Same counts for a degreased chain that is not fast enough dried and relubed again. Also that causes corrosion. Water used to clean and /or just humidity in the air in collaboration with oxygen causes corrosion. This attack on the metal can also cause microscopic damage like hairline cracks.


Hairline cracks increases the possibility of breaking enormously. Breaking a chain is not just only annoying but can damage your bike and also can be dangerous for you and others.

(Maybe you remember the Shimano Ultegra chain debacle from some time ago. Where hairline cracks caused many broken chains. Nothing to do with cleaning but what haircracks will do in a chain. It causes soonn faillure)

The following topic is maybe also interesting for you to get understanding of issues with degreasers.
http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mecha ... -long.html



But like I wrote before, this is just part of the story and not the only reason not to degrease a new bike chain.

stoney
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by stoney

I never remove the factory lube AND I never take a chain off to clean it. But after EVERY ride I put the bike in the stand and apply some Rock N Roll Gold and wipe it down clean with a rag. It takes maybe 2 to 3 minutes and my bike is ready for the next ride. Rock n Roll Gold also was one of the top performing lubes in a Friction Test performed a year or so ago. It contains solvents to clean your chain and lubricant to keep your chain squeak free and rolling free.

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AJS914
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by AJS914

Every ride seems like overkill. I do the same treatment once a week.

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