Red anodized Titanium?

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verbs4us
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Location: 20 miles from NYC

by verbs4us

Best I can determine from metallurgists, you can't get a true red on Ti anodization. Closest you get is a pink or a purple. Anyone know a process to do this, possibly cheating the chemistry, to make a durable red surface on Ti?

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BRM
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by BRM

No,

The colors are caused by a particular trick of physics: Optical Interference.
(Here in detail on http://mrtitanium.com/interference.html)

The colors are limited by the behavior of photons. There is no dye or coloring agent to give precise control.

Red, in particular, cannot be produced because it’s wavelength is twice as long as blue. So if the interference allows red, it also allows the shorter blue through. This creates the secondary color called Magenta, red-violet, or purple.



Source:
http://mrtitanium.info/

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maxxevv
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by maxxevv

You'll probably have to look at PVD processes to get a red substrate to be strongly adhered to a Ti surface.

verbs4us
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by verbs4us

maxxevv wrote:You'll probably have to look at PVD processes to get a red substrate to be strongly adhered to a Ti surface.


Interesting...I got a reply from two mfgrs that neither PVD nor CVD is an option. Red Ti seems to be a Holy Grail! Whoever solves it first gets ... the yellow jersey. I feel like Thomas Edison: "I haven't failed. I found 100 ways that don't work."

maxxevv
Posts: 2012
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by maxxevv

According to these guys, you can get it in red, or at least very close to red.

http://www.finishing.com/78/46.shtml

This Zippo lighter is supposedly PVD coated. But its probably a brass case that's been chrome plated and then coated over.

http://www.lightersdirect.com/Classic+D ... 18598.html

pdmtong
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by pdmtong

Firefly http://fireflybicycles.com/ does a lot color work with their ti. i would contact them and ask - if it can be done, I would think they would have done it. that said, I dont recall any red ti FF

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BRM
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by BRM

When you just read my text and further on the link I provided in my former post, you will know why it is impossible.

verbs4us
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by verbs4us

pdmtong wrote:Firefly http://fireflybicycles.com/ does a lot color work with their ti. i would contact them and ask - if it can be done, I would think they would have done it. that said, I dont recall any red ti FF


I did talk with Kevin about it and yes, it is the Holy Grail, and not in the physics of anodization (as BRM said). The only route would be to bypass anodization and find another way to achieve the color on Ti. For example, find something that bonds to Ti (ideally at a molecular level) and itself allows a red color. I'll ask my friends at Sikorsky Aircraft--if anyone has thought of it, and it's not classified, it would be the them or the Office of Naval Research. Standby...

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BRM
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by BRM

The question is why you want it anyway.
I think noone is waiting on bright red titanium parts. It creates a circus bike.
The only right color for titanium is Original color, imo.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

It can be powder coated to Red Anodized color, weight penalty will be minimal compared to wet paint (maybe 10-15g weight gain? guessing).
Prismatic offers the color, just find a local service that is qualified to do the job.

It will come out looking 'anodized red'
Exp001 || Other projects in the works.

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BRM
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by BRM

Depends on what object exactly. Powdercoating can flake off and for fineparts as bolts its not nice surface, it doesnt look smooth. For hex bolts it also not seems a good idea because your tool will fit not well anymore or crush the coating.

verbs4us
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by verbs4us

BRM wrote:The question is why you want it anyway.
I think noone is waiting on bright red titanium parts. It creates a circus bike.
The only right color for titanium is Original color, imo.


Circus bike, like this? Let me get my clown suit on:
Attachments
masi paint. small.jpg

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BRM
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by BRM

Exactly not a nice color for a titanium bike. Why would you anyway color a titanium bike like that?
For an old fashioned steel bike from the past it can be ok.

And it is totally unsure what you had in mind because you didnt communicated if this all is simply about parts or just a frameset? Or maybe even other titanium stuff. I was more refering to parts, like bolts.

:wink:

verbs4us
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by verbs4us

I cheated. That's the old steel bike. I'm painting a Ti bike because my first priority is visibility, no matter how incremental an increase you get from painting skinny little tubes. It's kind of a shame, since brushed/matte Ti is so beautiful, but I am a safety weenie: hot pink jersey, fluorescent socks, etc. My goal is to give drivers eyestrain. The frame will be Pantone Process Yellow C, with decal, HT badge and small highlights in red. I was hoping to get some small Ti parts also in red, to match the accent red, but it looks like a big challenge.

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