Another boring Supersix sizing thread. 48 or 50.

[nemeseri]

I know... I know. Get a bike fit, ride the bike etc.

168cm tall (5'6.5"), super short legs at 75cm (29.5in), saddle height: 67cm. Retul fitted.
I currently own a caad10 in 48 with a 110mm stem (-6 deg) and it feels just a tad small. I love the drop. I love that I don't have to use a stem that's 90mm and I have awesome handling with the longer stem.

I'm thinking about upgrading it to a supersix evo. I noticed that the effective top tube of the evo is slightly shorter (51cm evo vs 51.5cm caad). And the reach of the evo in 50 is shorter than the caad10's. I'd love to hear caad10 vs supersix opinions on the geometry of those frames.

Obviously everything points to the evo in 50, but still... Is there such a thing as too small frame? Do I get a better handling if I go with the larger frame? I want a stem that's at least 100mm.

[oreoboreo]

I am 5"5' with the same leg length, I ride a 50c HM EVO and have about 10k miles on it. I am thinking about a buying a new in a 48cm. I am interested in your thread about handling with the shorter frame. Mostly high speed down hill rippers.

I just had a new fit a couple of days ago (past fit 5 years ago) and he said that I fit fine on my 50 however the 48 is s close I could ride it just fine. Not sure if this helps any, thanks for starting this thread

scott

[nemeseri]

I am 5"5' with the same leg length, I ride a 50c HM EVO and have about 10k miles on it. I am thinking about a buying a new in a 48cm. I am interested in your thread about handling with the shorter frame. Mostly high speed down hill rippers.

I just had a new fit a couple of days ago (past fit 5 years ago) and he said that I fit fine on my 50 however the 48 is s close I could ride it just fine. Not sure if this helps any, thanks for starting this thread

scott

How long is the stem on that bike? I think that going with a 48 cannondale with my height is considered extreme. Still if you search for 48cm caads and supersixes you can find a ton with very long stems (120mm+). Meaning I'm not alone with the idea of going with a very small frame and using a long stem.

[oreoboreo]

I have a zipp 90mm on it currently. I am guessing with a 48cm bike I will need a 100mm stem on it.

[jpanspac]

nemeseri, why are you fixated on the stem length? That's the tail wagging the dog. The stem length doesn't really have that big an effect on handling.

[numberSix]

You'll get a better answer if you supply a few more things:
- side photo of current CAAD10
- saddle setback; easiest is measurement from expander bolt to saddle tip
- spacer height under the stem (25mm cone, etc)
- what bars are you using
- geo charts (or links to) for your CAAD10 and the SS you're looking at.
- usage info, comfort info about your current ride: do you spend all day on the hoods, tops, drops? You touched on what you like about your current setup, more info the better.

[jeffy]

assumptions for my post mainly because i assume you want a *new* supersix evo (2016) ... and you didn't specify the year of the CAAD, so i based it on the following (but doubt it makes more than a couple of mil difference)

supersix 2016 model
CAAD10 2015 model

supersix evo 2016 - size 50
stack - 51.9
reach - 37.6

caad 2015 frameset - size 48
stack - 51.7
reach - 36.8

Basically moving to a size 50 supersix evo would make 2 mm higher stack & 8 mm longer reach. So with same headset, 2mm more spacers and a 10mm shorter (identical angle stem) * saddle in the same position on the rails with the same seatpost setback (seat tube angle identical) - you would have the same fit

AKA not a dramatic difference.


*i wish people would stop going on about 'vertical top tube' 'top tube etc.
other than stack and reach your only fit consideration is seat tube angle (to know setback necessary)'.... then it is just headset/spacers/stem*

..... and in reference to a previous poster, when i notice increasing the length of the stem (even 10mm) to have a
fairly noticeable +ve effect on handling

If you want a supersix, i would prefer a 10mm longer stem on a 48 - but it would depend on how many spacers / how large a topcap you run 4mm more spacers (needed on the 48 Evo vs 48 Caad) is okay unless you run a 25mm topcap and 25mm of spacers already.

[nemeseri]

nemeseri, why are you fixated on the stem length? That's the tail wagging the dog. The stem length doesn't really have that big an effect on handling.

I used to have a slightly big bike and after my bike fit I had to use a 80mm stem. I'm quite small and I use 40cm handlebars. The handling of that bike became very twitchy after the change. Both of my current bikes have much better handling than the previous slightly big bike.

You'll get a better answer if you supply a few more things:
- side photo of current CAAD10
- saddle setback; easiest is measurement from expander bolt to saddle tip
- spacer height under the stem (25mm cone, etc)
- what bars are you using
- geo charts (or links to) for your CAAD10 and the SS you're looking at.
- usage info, comfort info about your current ride: do you spend all day on the hoods, tops, drops? You touched on what you like about your current setup, more info the better.

Well... Let's see.
1) Unfortunately I don't have a recent picture, but I will upload one when I get home.
2) Saddle setback
from the expander bold to the saddle tip: ~373mm (not parallel to the ground, straight line between the saddle tip and middle of expander bolt. When I get home I will update this)
I use a seatpost with a 25mm offset. The saddle is right in the middle of the clamp. Fitted, no knee problems. 170mm crank arms.
3) 25mm cone, no additional spacers. -6 deg/110mm stem. Thinking about going lower, but I have to work on my core to swap that stem to a -17deg one.
4) I use FSA Omega Compact bar (size 40, but measures 38cm c-c at the hoods) 120mm drop / 80mm reach
5) CAAD10 size 48 I have: http://www.pmcycles.com.au/upimages/Can ... ometry.jpg
SS Geo (I'm torn between size 48 and 50): http://cf-prd.cannondale.com/~/media/Im ... _2016.ashx
6) My CAAD10 is my training bike so it has a mix of components. Because the standard SS is quite cheap I'm thinking about upgrading it. My other bike is a Trek Emonda SL in size 50. I like the compliance of the emonda, but it's much-much more fun to ride the CAAD10 for a reason I can't describe. The caad10 has a bigger saddle to bar drop, a longer stem and still it has a slightly shorter reach. I pick the caad10 for everything except long group rides and centuries. I mostly ride on the hoods and go down to the drops whenever I want to go faster on flat or rolling terrain. BUT I'm mostly on the hoods.

[numberSix]

ok, your CAAD10 vs SS-50cm
motor: seat tube angles are both 74.5*, so with same saddle and post you'll be in the same spot.

bar position: As jeff stated, stack and reach are close.
SS-50 is 2mm higher and 8mm longer reach; I agree stems preferably should be >=100mm. Since you're presently using the 25mm cone spacer, lots of room to move down. Great resource for what-if: http://www.yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

handling: head tube angle and trail are the same, so if the CAAD10 turns, provides good feedback, and is stable enough for you in a straight line the front geo is a wash. The Evo forks are lighter than the CAADs, and flex/absorb more. Evo50 Wheelbase is only 2mm longer, no change there. Same for BB Drop and chain stay length.

Flat out, the Evo will ride better. It's not a couch, but it's better than my CAAD9. On fit, you seem to be working on getting lower, but the size differences between the SS 48 and 50 are small. Easily fixed with proper component choice, fyi there are stem choices in 8,10,12* not just 6 and 17. Substituting for the 25mm cone gives you plenty of room to work with. HTA changes of 0.5* are noticeable, you have to decide what you'd like to be different.

-reading comprehension edit-- If you like Cannondale ride/fit, you'll really like the Evo.

[nemeseri]

HTA changes of 0.5* are noticeable, you have to decide what you'd like to be different.

Thanks! Yes. The HTA is one of my main concerns. Why is it important? How the handling will be different?

And I promissed a picture, so here it goes. Please excuse my rs11 front wheel and budget components.
Size: caad10 48cm, 110mm -6deg stem.

So if this feels great (little bit shortish..) should I size up?

[oreoboreo]

Lots of great stuff here for us compact guys on SS's Evo's... I will hang back and keep on reading, thanks. FYI Lots of toe overlap on the size 48, not a problem for some, however just a heads up for any shoe size

Scott

[jeffy]

the slacker the headtube the less 'twitchy'/more 'stable' the steering IIRC

[jeffy]

if you feel a 'little short' on the 48. going with the 50 will make a small difference, possibly more psychological that real - but that still counts

remember you can basically you can get about 20mm in reach difference between two sets of bars.

Personally I would just buy whichever i was able to find at the lowest price/discount. Either the 48 or the 50 will be fine.
And you can relatively easily and cheaply tweak the 'reach' of the fit with stems and bar selection - and stack with spacers.

It really is a toss up, an argument could be made for either - so for me it would come down to price and/or color scheme.

at worst going 'down' to a 100mm stem on a 50 isn't that bad, and i think you would likely be fine with the same 110mm

If everything was equal, i would probably go for the 50 - but its actually a difficult call, and likely not as significant as it feels.
Either would be cool.

[seanblurr]

I'm not adding much here, but I recently just got a CAAD12 in a 50 and I wish I had ordered a 48. I'm 5'6. Take that for what it's worth, haha.

[nemeseri]

@jeffy & @numberSix : thank you for all your input. Great and valuable stuff.

Now I'm tending to think that maybe size 48 would suite me better. I'd have more room to play with handlebars, going lower, etc. (If I go lower the reach is going to be longer too). I'd rather use a 110/120mm stem than risk to feel too stretched out on a 100mm one. Also I'd have to go with a -8/-10 stem or replace the headset cone with a shorter one to get the same stack I have now.

What I really don't get about the geometries is that how it is possible that:
x) in size 48 both bike has the same seat tube angle and head tube length (74deg and 11cm)
x) The SS has a shorter top tube (51cm vs 51.5cm) AND a shallower head tube angle (71.5cm vs 72cm)
x) Still the reach is the same for both (368mm)

Any idea? I'm sorry I suck at math.

I'm not adding much here, but I recently just got a CAAD12 in a 50 and I wish I had ordered a 48. I'm 5'6. Take that for what it's worth, haha.

The CAAD12 is quite different than the CAAD10. I don't know why they increased the seat tube that much, even in smaller sizes. I wouldn't be able to stand over the 50 and I'm just short, not super short.

Lots of great stuff here for us compact guys on SS's Evo's... I will hang back and keep on reading, thanks. FYI Lots of toe overlap on the size 48, not a problem for some, however just a heads up for any shoe size

Yeah.. I have toe overlap on both of my bikes. I think that's something you can't avoid in these sizes. I'd have to go up to 52 at least to avoid it and it's not going to happen