Titanium Road Bike Advice

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

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Jcgill
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:03 pm

by Jcgill

Hello, i am looking to build up a titanium road bike in the near future, and have my choice narroed down to 2 well known builders: Moots or Jim Kish.

I am loooking for opinions on both, and any advice on which one based on the following:
I am wanting a Vamoots Cr with Ultegra and basic cockpit that i can upgrade little by little.

The local moots dealer wants around 8k for a Vamoots Cr with Ultegra build :shock:
The one positive is they include a guru fit, but paying 1,100 for just ultegra components is insane when ribble has them for 650 and competitive cyclist has them for 799!

I found the online store for adrenaline bikes in Orange, CA and they have a very similar build for 4,950.
Which is a great price, but i would need to do my own sizing homework and then maybe see a fitter to fine tune my fit once i get it...but that would be worth it for the savings from the lbs.

Kish has a similar Ultegra build which would be around 5300, but kish would build a frame custom sized for me based on me providing measurements to him, again i would probably take it to a local fitter to adjust my cleats, seat, and stem position once i have the bike.

What would be the best way to buy a bike online and ensure the frame fit is close enough that stem and seatpost adjustments will allow you to find the perfect position???

I have only had basic fits for my caad10 and my madone. The had me stand over a 54 and then a 56 and swap back and fourth, the 54 worked for both bikes, then i rode it on a trainer and they adjusted seat height/fore aft position, swapped to a longer stem, and they both Feel comfy for me.

Just want to make sure i get exactly the right size if i am buying a high end frame!


Thank you for any help,
Jon

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I'd figure out your sizing and save the thousands of dollars. Pay a pro a few hundred to look at your fit if you aren't sure. After that you can compare what you have now with the moots geometry.

by Weenie


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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The whole point of custom is that you get get it build exactly to the geometry you want. If you don't know the geometry you want don't get custom until you do. If that means paying a fitter good money do that.

AJS914
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by AJS914

Yes! And I'd be hesitant to blindly rely on a fitter for a custom frame until you understand exactly why you want a certain geometry.

Jcgill
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:03 pm

by Jcgill

I know what i want, road frame that can be used for everything from a 20 mile hammer fest to centuries. I would like it to be slightly racy but still relaxed enough for long rides.

My main concern is with moots for example picking the right size 54, 56 etc. i guess comparing my current geometry to moots would be a good start.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

That what I eat unless you know the exact geometry you want do go ordering a custom frame until you do. The whole point is it can be made to what you need.

Svetty
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Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country

by Svetty

It's not just about your measurements but also flexibility and core strength.

fromtrektocolnago
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

A good custom fit, will not only look at your size but how you tend to ride. Some shops can add a lot of value if they're able to go beyond simple measurements and help with proper tube selection.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels

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fa63
Posts: 2533
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

Moots builds great bikes, and do most of their business building "stock geometry" bikes which has some advantages, one being that they have the ride quality nailed down pretty well for their stock bikes, and another being that they tend to hold their value quite well if that matters to you. The downside is that if the stock geometry doesn't work very well, then their custom program is quite an upcharge, on top of an already expensive frame.

With Kish, you will get a frame made to fit your body and I am sure Jim would do a great job with tubing selection and ride quality. That said, if the geometry comes out to be out of the ordinary, expect to take a big hit on resale, again if that matters. Also, there is a small chance with any custom build that things will not turn out quite the way you expected them. But I think that is quite rare.

Good luck.

LenJ
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:57 pm

by LenJ

Why limit yourself to those two?

Get something without Breezer rear dropouts.
Last edited by LenJ on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jcgill
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:03 pm

by Jcgill

LenJ wrote:Why limit yourself to those two?

Get something without Breezer read dropouts.


I chose those 2 based on the quality and pricepoint, also chatting with builders at NAHBS and touring the moots factory on vacation.

I also considered strong, eriksen, firefly, and litespeed.

I do like the stock sizes of moots, plus the fact that it is larger than a one man show so if someone retires you still have a warranty unlike kish, strong, and eriksen where they could retire and you are left without any support.

RyanH
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by RyanH

I would not only recommend a good fit but also recommend logging a ton of miles on that fit. I've had plenty of friends get fits by respected fitters and they were less comfortable than before.

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eaglejackson
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:26 am
Location: PNW

by eaglejackson

If your body is within a somewhat normal range, then I personally would go with a stock frame and a good fit. And ride the heck out the bike with that fit, tweak it as necessary to get something that has been proven to fit well. There is plenty of range for establishing your touch points. Then you'll find out whether you really would benefit from a custom frame.

If you don't know what you want in a custom frame, then I don't think you are necessarily well served by a custom. It will be a lot more expensive, and it may not fit you better. Indeed, it may fit you worse. Plus, if you find it's not right for you, a custom won't have much resale value.

Good fitters don't always result in bikes that fit you well as you ride the bike.

I speak from experience. I went to an experience, well regarded fitter and ordered a custom Ti bike from Spectrum. Tom built exactly what I asked for. I rode it for a couple of years but never felt comfortable on it. Of all the bikes I have had over the past 25 years, it was the worst fitting, least comfortable bike I've ever had. I got rid of it and bought a stock Merlin Extralight, which I still have (almost 20 years later).

Jcgill
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:03 pm

by Jcgill

That is why i am leaning towards the moots option.

I am a pretty normal build 5'10"tall 32"inseam, 165-175 lbs. pretty flexible.

The 54cm madone and caad10 fit me well, and i have no complaints.
Do not think in need custom geometry, that is just how kish builds them.

I have always lusted over raw ti bikes and would like to add one to my stable.
Since the local moots dealer wants retail prices plus tax for every component of the build, i found an online retailer with very good pricing. Was wondering what was the best way to calculate with any precision if I should get a 54, 55, or 56cm moots frame.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
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LenJ
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:57 pm

by LenJ

eaglejackson wrote:If your body is within a somewhat normal range, then I personally would go with a stock frame and a good fit. And ride the heck out the bike with that fit, tweak it as necessary to get something that has been proven to fit well. There is plenty of range for establishing your touch points. Then you'll find out whether you really would benefit from a custom frame.

If you don't know what you want in a custom frame, then I don't think you are necessarily well served by a custom. It will be a lot more expensive, and it may not fit you better. Indeed, it may fit you worse. Plus, if you find it's not right for you, a custom won't have much resale value.

Good fitters don't always result in bikes that fit you well as you ride the bike.

I speak from experience. I went to an experience, well regarded fitter and ordered a custom Ti bike from Spectrum. Tom built exactly what I asked for. I rode it for a couple of years but never felt comfortable on it. Of all the bikes I have had over the past 25 years, it was the worst fitting, least comfortable bike I've ever had. I got rid of it and bought a stock Merlin Extralight, which I still have (almost 20 years later).


Why would you get a Spectrum without going to the barn and getting fit by one of the best in the world, Tom Kellogg? (especially if you don't know your fit)

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