Helmets . whats the point. New study

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superdx
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by superdx

I wonder if the OP will leave their Twitter or their FB account, or some kind of identifier so that when one day, if there is an incident, we can link to this thread to any news outlet that wants to discuss helmet wearing. Would be really interesting when that day comes!

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Wearing no helmet, heck that sounds like a 14 year old girl!

I crashed riding after rain (mtb). A big badly exposed tree root and it was in slow speed. Helmet cracked!

I was riding solo so i guess i would have been dead if not for the helmet.

Next crash, came in 25km/h through a corner. Did not see that this sleek tarmac road turned into a gravel road, half way through the corner.

The bike just lost grip and tipped over in the speed of light. I slided along several meters and smacked left side.

Without helmet and protective glasses, i had been in for a head scrub!

I also cracked two ribs at the side.

I had no face damage at all.

DO NOT RIDE WITHOUT HELMET!!!!
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xena
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by xena

superdx wrote:I wonder if the OP will leave their Twitter or their FB account, or some kind of identifier so that when one day, if there is an incident, we can link to this thread to any news outlet that wants to discuss helmet wearing. Would be really interesting when that day comes!


Cheers , I will definitely keep you posted . Just in case its a fatal crash could you send me your address so I can get my wife or my 2 sons to pass you on the appropriate info. It will be "really interesting" when I am seriously hurt or killed ,,,jesus
Thanks for your nice post

I Posted the article because it was just released. I then gave my opinion about helmets.
The thread is about your views on the article and not about me not wearing a helmet.
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andrew9
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by andrew9

"You ride a bike, without a helmet? You must have a death wish!"

"You ride a bike, on the road? You must have a death wish!"

Sounds the same to me.



I think I would hear less comments like the second, if we didn't have mandatory helmet laws here. I believe it has grown a subtle fear of cycling. It's so dangerous you need a helmet!

Xena, ride on, I think you understand the risks just fine

LenJ
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by LenJ

Can't speak for anyone else but I'd personally be dead several times over if I didn't wear a helmet. The most recent was 8/1 hit from behind by a pickup truck doing 50 mph. Split the helmet in 2.

To those mocking crashes, you can do everything right and a driver doing something wrong can ruin your day.

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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

While I wear a helmet always I do think it does not overall have a big impact on head injury rate. for use racers that maybe be different due to the speed and the nature of our falls but most cyclist are not like us and if you are commuting in a town slowly and come down well mostly you head does not touch the ground. If you end up under the wheels or lorry or bus a helmet is not going to help much either.

For MTBer helmets are must as we can crash into trees head first or hit other nasties sticking out of the ground.

I could say all my crashes hitting a badger at 25mph, greasy bends that have taken me down I have tumbled and slid never once damaged my helmet (this is true). I have cracked a helmet in a MTB crash in a race glad I had it that day. You naturally will protect your head instinctively you keep it away from the ground. You could also quote the case above of being hit from behind but this is anecdotal evidence. However anecdotel evidence like this is not evidence that helmets are effective or not in population study. It is evidence only that helmets were or were not effective in those cases. So why is this thread full of anecdotel evidence it does not advance the argument on bit?

It shows that the study, which is a epidemiological one, is not appreciated. It is a study not aimed at us, the cyclist, but at policy makers in government do best decide where their efforts and funds should be directed. In The Netherlands most commutors do not wear a helmet. Injury rates per mile cycled are lower than in the U.K. Why maybe it is the investment in infrastructure.

I still wear a helmet though but I rail against the sentiments above that those who dont are taking a big risk. The shaming is unkind and unfair and is very common in clubs I ride in too.

11.4
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by 11.4

bm0p700f wrote:It is a study not aimed at us, the cyclist, but at policy makers in government do best decide where their efforts and funds should be directed.


Fascinating read here. I never knew so many people on this forum would dispense with helmets. I guess the weight weenie thing is hard at work here.

bm0p700f captured the rationale of that study best of anyone so far. And as pointed out earlier, it's highly compromised and a poor piece of statistical research at best. And there's not necessarily a correlation between what legislators do with helmet laws and cyclist head injuries, even though there may be a correlation between actual helmet use and cyclist head injuries. That latter point is the critical one and not addressed by the article. This was a polit sci study, not even an epidemiological one -- much of my professional life is in epidemiology of major infectious outbreaks and I felt rather insulted by the way the study was couched in the article.

But ... so what? We seem to have a few themes that drive helmet use and perceptions of helmet safety:

1. Libertarian -- I shouldn't have to if I don't want to. As far as your life is concerned, that's probably fine, but I see two shortcomings in that view. First, it encourages kids and others to eschew helmets, which may not be good. And second, if you incur major trauma from a no-helmet crash, there are always unreimbursed costs to the community for use of an emergency room and hospital and first responder services (ambulance, EMT, police, coroner, etc.) that basically mean the rest of us foot part of the bill. Further, if a rider T-bones my car after he runs a stoplight and is killed or permanently disabled, I have a good chance I'll face a civil suit with major legal costs and possible claims. I had a good friend who crossed over the center line on a twisting downhill sprint to a town line sign, and went face first into an oncoming vehicle. He had a helmet on and would have died anyway, but irresponsibility has a price that that oncoming driver will have to pay. The driver will never be the same. Is it fair to impose even the risk of greater injury or death on someone else so you can have your freedom to wear that Campagnolo cap instead of a protective helmet?

2. Weight savings -- and add to that, a cooler head in hot weather. We would all agree that pros headed up Alpe d'Huez would just as soon do it without helmets, and the risk is indeed pretty low (except for Froome, for whom a helmet protects him from spittle, beer bottles, and other health threats). But seriously, is that the model for us to follow? How many people on this forum seriously spend their lives engaged in daily bunch field sprints or descending at speeds that even the pros consider extremely frightening? Perhaps we should get away from the fantasy a bit (and that includes the bike messenger fantasy as well, by the way) and just treat our lives realistically.

3. Effectiveness of helmets -- I believe (though I haven't gone and researched it) that there has been extensive public safety data collected that showed reduced rates of head injury of various kinds when helmets were worn properly. Now to a couple posters here, one single death while wearing a helmet does not statistical validity make. And most crashes aren't lethal, but nonetheless may produce a concussion or edema or hematoma which one can at least mostly recover from but shouldn't be on anybody's bucket list. Those are all good reasons for helmets -- helmets may not stop massive and lethal injuries, but they may stop others. This study that's been bandied around isn't even a basis for discussing such issues. And it's Canadian as well -- enuf said.

4. Safer without helmets -- Well, I hear that one from time to time but the statistics aren't with you on this one. It assumes that with (claimed) better visibility, one can see and avoid accidents. Some people, including many bike messengers I know, firmly believe they can steer their way out of trouble. I guess I'd like to see the actual numbers, not anecdotal data. There may be an occasional rider for whom this actually works, but what about the many other riders who do benefit from a helmet? We get back to the libertarian issue, which in turn gets back to the question of whether to mandate it for everybody or let society bear the cost of injuries or deaths because someone doesn't wear a helmet.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I wear a helmet and I won't ride without one. And I can't race without one, not that I'd even try to. But it's important to understand what this and other studies are really saying. Studies comparing injury and death rates with and without helmets are pretty convincing. Putting money into government actions to increase helmet use may be indirectly useful but -- since most of us wear helmets now anyway -- the money may be better spent going after other risks to cyclists. Which doesn't mean my risk of not wearing a helmet has just gone down.

Wearing a helmet, to me, seems to be like not walking down a back alley on Saturday night in the Projects, or like a woman not walking alone on back streets in Tijuana. Some things you simply wouldn't want your kid or your partner to do. This is one of those. Looking at the correct data, there actually is more of an argument for wearing that helmet. Our government officials could refocus their efforts perhaps, but that's if we're already going to be wearing helmets for the most part. For those who really don't want to, as pointed out above, there's always Darwin.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Really good post 11.4, except for the slight on Canadian studies. I'm Canadian. Ok, upon reflection... the slight on Canadian studies is accepted. [emoji3]
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11.4
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by 11.4

Calnago wrote:Really good post 11.4, except for the slight on Canadian studies. I'm Canadian. Ok, upon reflection... the slight on Canadian studies is accepted. [emoji3]


I'm married to a Canadian. I've already paid the price.

But thank you for the compliment. I'll always take a compliment from a Canadian. They usually reserve them for hockey players and things with antlers.

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by dmulligan

What would be the effect of road rash on glorious locks of hair?

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superdx
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by superdx

Some people, including many bike messengers I know, firmly believe they can steer their way out of trouble.


This raised the hairs on the back of my neck. Taxi, HGV, LGV, van and lorry drivers all think they have very good driving skills because "that's what they do all day". But any other driver would probably agree that these drivers are categorically the worst on the road. Reasons a plenty, but lack of common road courtesy (pretty fatal for a cyclist), fail to signal as they have "good road awareness so they can see other cars and don't need to signal", high speeds "because they know their own vehicle so well that they can control it better" etc. etc.

So sure bike messengers may have extremely good road awareness but are they the safest? I think most people in big cities with lots of bike messengers (NYC, SF) would probably say bike messengers are *the worst* for safety either for pedestrians or other road users. And when everyone on the road starts thinking that way, accidents happen.

superdx
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by superdx

xena wrote:
superdx wrote:I wonder if the OP will leave their Twitter or their FB account, or some kind of identifier so that when one day, if there is an incident, we can link to this thread to any news outlet that wants to discuss helmet wearing. Would be really interesting when that day comes!


Cheers , I will definitely keep you posted . Just in case its a fatal crash could you send me your address so I can get my wife or my 2 sons to pass you on the appropriate info. It will be "really interesting" when I am seriously hurt or killed ,,,jesus
Thanks for your nice post

I Posted the article because it was just released. I then gave my opinion about helmets.
The thread is about your views on the article and not about me not wearing a helmet.


But you don't wear a helmet right? I wish you a long and healthy life. But accidents do happen. This is why insurance companies exist. I would guess you don't have any insurance either because you don't think anything will happen to you. Plenty of people have posted their experience here where helmets have saved from becoming a vegetable. You choose not to wear a helmet, congratulations to you, and I hope you never have an accident. But because you don't wear a helmet, you should also fill out an organ donor card because someone else WILL be saved because of what you choose not to do. Think about it. It's devastating when patients die because no suitable organs are available, and it's a huge problem, read up on it, since you appear to be equally interested in studies about not wearing helmets.

mattr
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by mattr

Can't believe people put so much faith in helmet design, have you actually seen what the testing protocol consists of?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

No, but I'd be curious to see what it does to a coconut.
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boysa
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by boysa

Who needs to see the testing protocol? I've had them save my life on at least four occasions. Pretty sure they worked just fine, different makes/models each time.
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