2016 Felt AR FRD (15.54#) and AR1 (16.09#)

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SuperDave
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by SuperDave

I try to avoid posting blatant "advertising" on the forum but I've answered the "how much does it weigh" question a few times now so I thought a post might be worthwhile. Apologies in advance for the self-congratulatory nature.

The two new premium AR models began shipping last month and I've had the chance to get them on the scale in their final production trim.

With a steerer and cables housings left long and CPSC bits like spoke protectors and reflectors the weights out of the box are:

15.54 pounds for a 54cm AR FRD including Pioneer powermeter
16.09 pounds for a 54cm AR1 including Garmin 1/4 turn computer mount

The FRD dropped 1/2 pound from last year and the AR1 is an all new model with Dura-Ace 9000, 3T Team kit, and Rotor Flow Aero crankset that will be offered in very limited numbers as a complete bike.

#aeroisalmosteverything



-SD

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chazmtb
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by chazmtb

Thanks for the update Dave. As an owner of an AR frd, I'm curious as to whether there have been any changes in the frame itself since 2014.

Zigmeister
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by Zigmeister

Do you have just a AR1 frameset weight with Fork uncut and seatpost?

Could lose half a pound on the AR1 by just swapping the stem (100g right there) and going with Di2 9070 over the Ultegra. Assuming the standard build off the website right that has Ultegra?

Even with some Enve 6.7 SES clinchers, and the above changed, 15.5lbs would be easy. 16 with pedals, full garmin/mount/sensors etc...maybe heavier seat even?

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53x12
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by 53x12

Zigmeister wrote:Do you have just a AR1 frameset weight with Fork uncut and seatpost?



2015 Felt AR1 56cm:

Frame: 1123g
Fork: 332g (uncut)
Seatpost: 302g
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

Zigmeister
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by Zigmeister

Mmm^ ouch that is a bit heavy. What I would consider an equivalent, a Scott Foil 15, and familiar with personally, is 100g lighter. 1014 for a 54cm framesetl.

Maybe you can't get it much lower than it is then unless wheels are tubies, stem gone etc.

Thanks for the weight. Would like to see some other real world build numbers other than what Dave posted of their setup.

Here are the weights I got when building my Foil 15 as comparison.

2013 Foil 15 54cm comes in at these numbers:

Frame only with chain catcher: 1002-1014g. Hard to balance as mentioned.
Fork uncut: 396g
Rear hanger w/ screws: 13g
Top cap w/screw: 10g
Plug: 23g
Carbon HT fork top cover/spacer: 16g
Headset top/bottom bearings w/wedge piece: 51g
Seat post wedge w/bolt: 23g
Seat post w/seat mount hardware: 213g

1150g with all the bits/seat post wedge. 396g fork uncut (of course, lost probably 80g off that when cut), 213g Seat post.

Probably close to 150-200g lighter a Foil 15 as described above than AR1.

I bet the ride compliance has to be better than the Foil though...one would think. But aero wise, they are very close.

Again, thanks for posting the weight, for the money, the AR1 frameset isn't a bad alternative/option.

Alexvpaq
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by Alexvpaq

2015 ar5 56 cm, full 105 5800 with chain catcher but without deflectors and steerer tube cut is ~18.3pounds
It would be easy to get it down to the 15 pounds range with a bit of money thrown at it and still be very aerodynamic.

newforker
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by newforker

53x12 wrote:
Zigmeister wrote:Do you have just a AR1 frameset weight with Fork uncut and seatpost?



2015 Felt AR1 56cm:

Frame: 1123g
Fork: 332g (uncut)
Seatpost: 302g


I recall very similar numbers..I think my post is a hair lighter, as it is the VariMount Textreme version and not the stock 3T DiffLock one ..but still porky as far as an aero seatpost goes..

nigel379
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by nigel379

Zigmeister, what data have you seen that makes you think the foil is "very close" to a Felt AR? Even Scott itself shows the new foil having only a slight improvement over the original foil, which has been show in every windtunnel test to be way behind the S5/AR. Good weights but not even close in aero performance.

BlackMadone
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by BlackMadone

I have a friend who is impatiently waiting for his FRD. He says its been shipped and still about 3 weeks away which is in line with your ship dates. He ordered it four weeks ago and has 3 to go that's a long wait when you forked out $13,000.

SuperDave
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by SuperDave

Zigmeister wrote:Mmm^ ouch that is a bit heavy. What I would consider an equivalent, a Scott Foil 15, and familiar with personally, is 100g lighter. 1014 for a 54cm framesetl.

Maybe you can't get it much lower than it is then unless wheels are tubies, stem gone etc.

Thanks for the weight. Would like to see some other real world build numbers other than what Dave posted of their setup.

Here are the weights I got when building my Foil 15 as comparison.

2013 Foil 15 54cm comes in at these numbers:

Frame only with chain catcher: 1002-1014g. Hard to balance as mentioned.
Fork uncut: 396g
Rear hanger w/ screws: 13g
Top cap w/screw: 10g
Plug: 23g
Carbon HT fork top cover/spacer: 16g
Headset top/bottom bearings w/wedge piece: 51g
Seat post wedge w/bolt: 23g
Seat post w/seat mount hardware: 213g

1150g with all the bits/seat post wedge. 396g fork uncut (of course, lost probably 80g off that when cut), 213g Seat post.

Probably close to 150-200g lighter a Foil 15 as described above than AR1.

I bet the ride compliance has to be better than the Foil though...one would think. But aero wise, they are very close.

Again, thanks for posting the weight, for the money, the AR1 frameset isn't a bad alternative/option.


The raw 56cm AR FRD weight is published on YouTube and here somewhere. It was ~900g.
My 58cm AR1 was 1080g but didn't have the "heavy" production matte/gloss clearcoat and decals.

The Scott is more similar to our F1 in aero, not our AR1. The AR1 is as aerodynamic as a Plasma frame. You're not comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing airfoils and oranges.
-SD

Zigmeister
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by Zigmeister

^thumbs up!

cobrakai
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by cobrakai

My 58 AR1 frameset:
Frame: 1199 grams
Fork: 342 grams uncut
Seatpost: 304 grams

I haven't finished gathering all the parts but based on what I have and published weights for what I'm planning to get it should build up around 6.9 kg sans pedals and cages.

CBRE
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by CBRE

My 2015 is for sale: 15.1 without pedals, would be much lighter with wheel change!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=136492

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/1280/gLDfZK.png
Curt Brown

2016 Cannondale EVO Etap 13.8#'s
2012 Cannondale Supersix EVO etap 13.7#'s
2017 Cannondale SUPER X Force 16.0#'s
2016 Cannondale FatCad2 28.1#'s
2011 Cannondale Carbon Flash 1 17.9#'s

Zigmeister
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm

by Zigmeister

Unfortunately, as much as I like the AR1 and the price is right, as I brought up nearly 18 months ago, or maybe longer, there is no zero offset seatpost. Flipping the post around looks silly. Other manufacturers on their aero frames have either a zero offset setup, on the smaller frames, like Scott on the Foil size 54cm and lower, default you get a zero offset. But, can put a zero offset on any frame they have.

BMC and the likes have a design of the seat mast to allow for a sliding setup to provide any amount of offset/forward setting of the seat for the person's fit.

Not sure what the offset is of the AR? Venge has I believe two offsets, 5-10 versions, BMC slides etc..

Just wondering, because the AR1 looks to have like a 15mm offset or greater?

Thanks

newforker
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:24 am

by newforker

The AR has a 25 offset post. They also do offer a 5 mm set back post. While not 0 offset, it should work just as well as a 0. Unless you have your saddle ALL the way forward on a 0.
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by Weenie


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