Zipp 404 set or 404/808 (606)

[coneill0422]

I am looking to go for a deeper wheelset and have done all the research on shapes, crosswinds, ext. I am a 150 lbs. rider that pretty much rides nothing but rolling terrain with some 5-9 minute climbs max (maybe avg. of 5% grade). Currently I ride Reynolds DV46 UL tubulars (and will continue to run tubulars with whatever I get next).

My question is if I should get a set of Zipp 404 firecrest tubulars or a set of Zipp 404 front/ 808 rear (I believe it is called a 606 wheelset) firecrest tubulars. I have seen a whole bunch of data about this from Triathlon sites but from a roadies perspective does it make sense to run such a deep section rear wheel (with the added weight penalty). I ride about 150 - 200 miles a week at a avg. speed of 21 - 22 mph, if that helps.

On a side note I would be able to pick up a very cheap old Reynolds 66 deep V wheelset, for someone of my build does that wheel make sense, with crosswinds and all?

[Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez]

You don't race right? For the typical circuits/crits I would not get a 808 rear because it's a bit "lazy" to accelerate but if you ride solo at a steady rythm you might like it - although if you don't do fast group or race, you probably won't ride a lot at speeds where the heavy 808 will have that so-called "flywheel effect"

My only concern would be them hubs for a "daily" use.

[coneill0422]

I don't race much honestly and like to do more "gran fondo" type of riding if I were to say what type (though without the intentional gravel sections and with "Chip and Seal" pothole, northeast Ohio sections). For the V8 (black) hubs are they that bad, what about the redesigned V9 hubs?

[Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez]

I don't have any idea to be honest, just being dubious/cautious towards them. I only know there are better hub around there.

What about Shimano C50 TU? They are aero enough, very though, stiff and yet quite comfortable although it's more about the tubulars you put on them (I read a lot of comments that they were more compliant than C35s...! go figure)

I've seen a clean set of 9000 C50 at a very affordable price on Paceline forum.

[aaronham]

I strongly agree with Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez. if there isn't a specific reason you pick ZIPP, why don't you put Shimano C50 Tu in your list. The functionality of Shimano C50 Tu is awesome. Shimano C50 TU's decal is a little bit off tho.

[arthurf]

The v9 hubs and newer are fine, read/heard of very few problems with them. Sure there are better hubs out there but I've always found the Zipp hubs fine for my riding.

I'm no aerodynamicist but I don't think an 808 rear would give you much benefit over a 404 as the air is so turbulent by the time it reaches this point so I would take the weight saving of the 404.

[junchen]

Not what the OP asked., but perhaps he can consider?
Pretty good value methinks.
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPCABOUL80 ... 0-wheelset


Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

[salesguy]

The Zipps are much wider and far more aero.

The front wheel makes more difference than the rear. Test data supports that, so in reality an 808F with a 404R is faster, but that just looks funny.

Resale on a mis-match set might be weird (they don't sell a 606 anymore).

I'd say get a 404 set and use them for everything

[FIJIGabe]

Personally, I went with a set of 2015 404's (clincher) (V9 hub, 2x laced on both sides) for use on my road bike and TT bike. The added weight of the 808 was a big detractor, plus the fact that it's just wasted money sitting on the bike, if I'm riding my other one. I just re-gear the rear wheel (if necessary) and swap them between bikes.

[mimason]

The 46UL is a great riding and very light wheel albeit old in tooth. I think you will be taking a step back in ride handling/feel with 404s or 606 combo personally. I've ridden a lot of various depth wheels and at your weight your 46s are ideal imo. Most rims you get now will be heavier at the rim due to the wider trends and safety of braking etc so rims are trending slightly heavier now. Exceptions are climber specific wheels but anything with depth for aero and comfort benefits are wider and U shaped adding weight. The UL is the ultra light rim and they were discontinued after a couple years addressing the braking track.

If you desire more aero rims and still want crisp handling and acceleration consider 303 if you are going Zipp. If you really want 404s then I'd ask if you are a slowtwitch rider or not, as 404s don't have a lot of giddyup but are fast after you wind them up. If so, then 404s would be great for breaks, long pulls and solo efforts. I'd personally like them for rollers but I'm a power rider not a sprinter or climber.

You mentioned crosswinds too. I think 303s and 404 are good at this but I'm heavier than you and ride in crosswinds all...the...time.

My $.02 is to try to ride deeper wheels before you pull any triggers. Even clinchers would give you an idea testing various depths. I have 32ULs(plus 24s, 50s and 65s) so I know basically what you have now. I do like the suggestions about the C50TU or even consider the Bora One 50s in tubs. ENVE 4.5s would be good too. They will ride stiffer than the Reynolds and feel just a good.

Of course these suggestions are based on my experience, preferences and opinions and could vary with your riding style and wants. Good luck.

BTW crosswinds on reynolds 66 will be very noticeable especially in gusty conditions. You will rarely be able to ride no hands in good conditions if this gives you an idea of what you will experience. I know this may be a bad example because we should not ride hands free but i have 35k miles on 65s in coastal areas for reference

[JimV]

I race the 808-404 combo when I can't decide if we will go a little to slow through the corners. The 808's are heavy and you feel them when accelerating from slow speeds, but at speed they are super fast. You have to weigh how much time you will be climbing and if the climbs vary in grade. At slow speeds the 808's feel slow.

[climber8]

The v9 hubs and newer are fine, read/heard of very few problems with them. Sure there are better hubs out there but I've always found the Zipp hubs fine for my riding.

I don't have any idea to be honest, just being dubious/cautious towards them. I only know there are better hub around there.

My only concern would be them hubs for a "daily" use.

There is NO issue with Zipp hubs going back 6 or more years. Many years ago there were some issues, but that got repeated by many people (unfortunately, some good people like Sammy Sanchez above... ) who don't really have experience but "heard something."

I've used Zipps daily for years, over dirt and gravel roads.

It's just not an issue you should worry about.

The aero benefit for an 808 vs 404, as a rear wheel, is minimal -- and less if you have a frame that "protects"/shields the rear wheel a bit, like many aero road frames. The weight difference is noticeable, but basically immaterial.

It's the first thing people feel in a parking lot, but the actual difference on the road is nil. Many people will tell you that one accelerates SO much slower than the other, but that's mostly in their head. At cycling speeds, weight the difference is very subtle.

[salesguy]

I agree on the hubs. I've been riding zipps since they first came out (with those gold flange hubs). Had just about every wheel along the way, zed techs, etc. Never had a hub problem. Don't think I've ever had one come out of true either.

I personally can't wait to see the new 808 NSW in person, those new hubs look awesome. I plan on using them for fast group rides, centuries, etc. I've raced tons of crits on 808s and while they don't spin up as fast as a super light wheel they are stiff and save more watts at speed.

Let's say you do a competitive 100 mile hilly century, where the hardest climb is at the end. If you ride 808s all day you might save 5 or 6w over lesser wheels. When you get to that final climb fresher is that better than pushing a less aero wheel all day but having a better "feeling" wheel at the end? I don't know, but logic leads me to want watt savings all day personally.

But if budget only allows one wheelset the 404 is a great choice. Or wait for the 404 NSW which will certainly be coming along.

[coneill0422]

Thanks for all the food for thought


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fondo]

I have a 606 setup on my aero road bike!
I'm sorry to say that I went for the 606 because I thought it looked cool. I only use the bike on the flats! its geared for flats and not hill climbing.
However I wish I had got the rear 404 instead, so I could use long valve inner tubes without extenders. The 808 is a pain to replace the inner tube and as the extenders are a different length it causes my no end of grief! But it does look cool