Time ZXRS, Look 695 or C59 based on Stack/Reach/Trail
Moderator: robbosmans
I want to pick up another frame, but to get the same stack/reach, it looks like I'm having some trouble, especially if I'd like something with a touch less reach. Any recommendations on the below or other frames I should be considering?
I'll be a small in the Time (543/373), Look (535/380) and a 50s (547/383) in the Colnago. My primary concern is that handling will be slow with the aforementioned frames since most in the small are running a 72* HT with a 43 fork (Colnago is just a big ???) so rake is up in the 6's.
Right now, I have 547 of stack and 377 reach and a trail of 58. I'm on a zero offset post with the saddle nose about 4cm behind the BB (you sit pretty far back on the MCFK saddle, est. at 1-2cm further than a Fizik Antares so I may be able to gain some rail space with a "normal" saddle). I also have a 100mm stem.
I'd prefer to get a frame that would either allow me to have less reach or allow me to go up to a 110mm if I feel too cramped, but finding a frame with a 36x reach without a huge drop in stack has been a PITA. I'm also concerned about the saddle setback on the Time since the STA is 73 vs my Litespeed at 73.5. The Look has a 74* STA at least and has a zero off-set post option.
As far as test riding, I can go test ride the ZXRS since there's one for sale in my area, but I'd be picking up a C59 second hand or the Look on R&A Cycles so I have limited ability to test ride.
Thoughts/guidance?
ETA: It looks like a small Parlee Altum would be an ideal fit with a full 1cm less of reach and slightly higher stack (551/367). A small Fuji SL would also work (520/378) but I may need to run spacers.
I'll be a small in the Time (543/373), Look (535/380) and a 50s (547/383) in the Colnago. My primary concern is that handling will be slow with the aforementioned frames since most in the small are running a 72* HT with a 43 fork (Colnago is just a big ???) so rake is up in the 6's.
Right now, I have 547 of stack and 377 reach and a trail of 58. I'm on a zero offset post with the saddle nose about 4cm behind the BB (you sit pretty far back on the MCFK saddle, est. at 1-2cm further than a Fizik Antares so I may be able to gain some rail space with a "normal" saddle). I also have a 100mm stem.
I'd prefer to get a frame that would either allow me to have less reach or allow me to go up to a 110mm if I feel too cramped, but finding a frame with a 36x reach without a huge drop in stack has been a PITA. I'm also concerned about the saddle setback on the Time since the STA is 73 vs my Litespeed at 73.5. The Look has a 74* STA at least and has a zero off-set post option.
As far as test riding, I can go test ride the ZXRS since there's one for sale in my area, but I'd be picking up a C59 second hand or the Look on R&A Cycles so I have limited ability to test ride.
Thoughts/guidance?
ETA: It looks like a small Parlee Altum would be an ideal fit with a full 1cm less of reach and slightly higher stack (551/367). A small Fuji SL would also work (520/378) but I may need to run spacers.
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You can try riding any Colnago in the right size since a C60, C59, or C50 should have the same geometry. I also think you might go smaller than a 50S. I'm 6ft and ride a 52S. A 52S equals about a 56 traditional. Also, on a C59 you'll have a 1cm headset cap which gives you more stack.
BTW, my C59s handling is anything but slow. In fact, I'd call it the best handling bikes I've ever had.
Personally, I've been wondering how Colnago calculates stack and reach. You quoted 383mm for the reach on a 50S which is from Colnago's chart. But shouldn't Reach = O - Scs on their chart? In this case it would be 540-131= 409. I'm sure I'm missing something but I'm curious.
Are you trying to avoid spacers? It seems like a smaller frame with some spacers to make up the stack would work better for you.
BTW, my C59s handling is anything but slow. In fact, I'd call it the best handling bikes I've ever had.
Personally, I've been wondering how Colnago calculates stack and reach. You quoted 383mm for the reach on a 50S which is from Colnago's chart. But shouldn't Reach = O - Scs on their chart? In this case it would be 540-131= 409. I'm sure I'm missing something but I'm curious.
Are you trying to avoid spacers? It seems like a smaller frame with some spacers to make up the stack would work better for you.
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The human body is flexible unless one has some medical issues. Small differences in stack/reach/ETT can be made up with spacers, stems and saddle positions.
Colnago doesn't publish stack and reach, that I'm aware of at least, but Slow twitch has a table for a lot of manufacturers. Not sure how accurate the numbers are.
The challenge with going down in size as I mentioned above is that trail increases in most frames since they slacken the head tube and keep the same fork rake. So, if I went down to a c59 in 48s, chances are the handling will be a lot different than a 52s.
Thats probably my primary question: how do the above frames handle in the smaller sizes? This reminds me of the size specific geometry that Specialized has recently been harping about but Cervelo seems to have a better implementation of (since their reach decreases 9mm every size).
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The challenge with going down in size as I mentioned above is that trail increases in most frames since they slacken the head tube and keep the same fork rake. So, if I went down to a c59 in 48s, chances are the handling will be a lot different than a 52s.
Thats probably my primary question: how do the above frames handle in the smaller sizes? This reminds me of the size specific geometry that Specialized has recently been harping about but Cervelo seems to have a better implementation of (since their reach decreases 9mm every size).
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FWIW, my C59 has the slackest head tube I've ever ridden but the sharpest handling of any of my bikes.
Colnago does have stack/reach pubished on their web site for the sloping sizes:
http://colnago.com/geometry/?lang=en
If you look at the C60 they now show stack/reach for all the sizes:
http://colnago.com/geometry-c60-2/?lang=en
Colnago does have stack/reach pubished on their web site for the sloping sizes:
http://colnago.com/geometry/?lang=en
If you look at the C60 they now show stack/reach for all the sizes:
http://colnago.com/geometry-c60-2/?lang=en
Thanks, I couldn't find that before. Interesting that between a 48s and a 54s there is a 1mm difference in reach. Assuming they're calculating it correctly, I should be better off with a 50s over a 48 since I wouldn't need spacers.
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what an intelligent post. purchasing a bike based on fit.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels
Ok, so based on the published stack/reach numbers, I can pick up a size 52s and run a -17* stem to get the same stack as the 50s? Reach is the same between the two. If that's the case, there's a Nero in 52s that I reaaaally want.
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Colnago sizing is odd in that the progression is all over the place. But it's quite handy for certain sets of coordinates where you get a bunch of options. Like you
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Very nice! Looking forward to your build.
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Sweet! Looking forward to seeing this being built up. You need to get some Campy on an Italian frame though.
It's funny you say that cause I was just thinking of what I'd title the build: Ryan's C59: Pure Sacrilege; or, Ryan's Vulgar C59. But yeah, I'm going to eschew the norm here and make it a weenie build. It's going to be unintentionally murdered out, so I need to figure where I can add a pop of color to it.
#sorrynotsorry!
#sorrynotsorry!
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