scott foil premium 2015 vs ss evo hi mod 2015

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

Post Reply
bigpab
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:31 am

by bigpab

Hi all
IM in for a new bike...
been racing for a short year...
climbed to A grade club races...( australia )
have had 1 win in this grade only to date...there were some good riders on that race but i launched a late attack about 2 ks from finish and hold the bunch for a win on my debut on A...
im a pretty aggressive rider...i find that i enjoy trying to blow things up...but often i blow myself ...lol...
i wouldn't say im a sprinter but i can sprint decently i guess....
im 184 cms 77 kgs
Im average rider i guess...but i can hold myself climbing a bit also...and like i said i like to attack
i live in an area with very short hills, nothing long...mostly flat to undulating terrain...
i have raced my first season with a caad10.... and recently upgraded the wheels to reynolds aero 46 front 58 back
i was going for the ss evo hi mod...
but i think this is too close what im riding...as its almost identical to the caad10 im on
so id like to get a scott foil premium da di2
i can't really organise a test since no dealers for this brand near me...
My question is...
i ride 56 caad10...
fits no worries
would a 56 scott be about same fit?
Am i right that the caad and the evo are too close? would the scott be a good match for my racing?
any suggestion would be appreciated as im not an expert racer....i really like the looks of the foil and the fact that its a bit aero...so might be ok to use for club tt with a clip on bar...but worry about not testing it... what is general idea as for size?
ill be fitting a stages pm on it as well...
as i train indoor with power but id like to do it outside also
thanks guys...
Bigpab

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



upside
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:26 am
Location: USA

by upside

Hands down and Evo.. it does the best of everything.

burglarboycie
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:58 pm
Location: Northamptonshire UK

by burglarboycie

Evo for sure!! I will never have anything else, I adore mine.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

foil - 394 reach / 569 stack
ss - - 395 reach / 558 stack.

so Foil is about 1 cm higher... so easily adjustable to fit the same, unless your CAAD has a slammed -17 deg stem.

Have not ridden either, but i would guess that you would sacrifice a little bit of handling and comfort for a little bit of aero.

What is the cost difference, are you looking at an NOS evo frameset?

Zigmeister
Posts: 938
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm

by Zigmeister

Sorry, long post. Know you sent an email to me, but thought a post about the Foil and my opinion for others that care to read on the forum is better.

First, I love my Foil, and I hate it at the same time. Love everything about it but one thing, the ride harshness. It's only flaw IMO.

I've never ridden an Evo, but used to ride a CDale Supersix before the Evo release. So can't compare that, and never rode a CAAD. But a friend of mine has the older CAAD/Supersix model he rides/competes on. With my "aero frame, jersey, wheels (he rides box aluminum)" he still beats me on his old CAAD and his power output is nearly 30w normalized higher than mine during the exact same races, and he weighs 25lbs+ more than me. So really, in the end, the bike isn't going to make a difference in racing performance, look at the pros. Or my example directly. It's the rider, not the bike!

But people rave about the ride comfort, and relative aero effects of the thin tubing of the EVO.

The Scott Foil is a harsh ride. No doubt about it. I like to feel the road and it inspires confidence, but at times, it becomes so jarring and brutal to ride over some surfaces/bumps/road imperfections, you fell everything in your butt and hands/arms. It is the one flaw of that frame IMO. Hence why I say, maybe wait for the new Foil, they improved the comfort as well as aero/stiffness. But surely, the costs will be nearly $4k for the frame when it finally hits the streets. You can pickup used Foils/EVOs for hardly any money today.

I've honestly over the past year been looking to get a new frame, maybe the new Foil when it comes out, or a different brand that maintains the stiffness, yet has better ride comfort and the aero benefits also. The ride quality at my age has really started to wear on me. Again, different people might not be bothered as much. But going on 2yrs now with a Scott Foil 15, and a year on the Team edition, I've kind of about had it with the ride harshness.

Foil is a stiff fast bike on smoother surfaces. The testing doesn't lie about it being one of the most aero currently and stiffest.

But from experience with a Foil Team edition and now a Foil 15, the ride is nearly identical of the HMX/HMF I found. You just lose about 100g of weight off the frame with the HMX/Premium edition, didn't notice any loss of stiffness at all.

You are two inches taller than me and about 5-6lbs heavier, I ride a 54cm Foil. Used to ride a 56cm Team Foil/mechanical. Then switched to a Foil 15 Di2. Impossible to find a Premium Di2 used. So went with the slightly heavier Foil 15. Also, I switched to a smaller frame (54cm) for less frontal drag, lower weight slightly, and better fit, longer stem etc.

I used to ride the Cannondale Supersix in a 56cm, probably should have been on a 54cm on that as well.

56cm is probably about right for you. But sizing is simply personal preference.

Wheels don't help with the Foil either. I have tubulars and clincher wheelsets...doesn't matter, only lower tire pressure, below 90psi gets the ride smoother. I run around 100psi Rear and 95psi Front on both setups. The ride is still the same on each setup on the Foil. So it is the frame causing the issue of harshness.

I know, Orica Greenedge rides the Foil and IAM cycling, they have tons of wins..and the bike isn't that huge of a difference. But they are pros and freaks of nature to ride for 4-5hrs on a bike for days at a time at the highest level. The new Foil is about to be released. Some initial comments by the Pros and reviewers that have ridden the new Foil, like the changes/ride update/comfort while maintaining/increasing aero/stiffness of the bike. All positive. Of course the price is going to reflect that when they get it out on the street.

Maybe pickup a used Foil, ride it and see how you like it. That is what I do. I don't buy new from a retailer. I take my chances off eBay, doing all my own wrenching and have had no issues with 2 different major frames brands (Cannondale/Scott) the past 3-4yrs. But that is just a personal preference, not everybody would be comfortable doing this I understand.

But I do think the Foil hands down, is a much better looking frame. Slight down slope of the TT, aero tubes etc..Evo just never looked right with all the old school looking aluminum frame setup they produced. Again personal preference. I don't like the Venge look either, but people love that Frame as well. The hunch back topt ube is a little dog taking a dump look to me personally. Again, this is all just personal preference, because most bikes today are all pretty similar to an extent, especially racing/sitting in the bunch, there is not aero advantage, you are sitting in the draft and any frame would be about the same in that situation for performance.

I'm assuming the #1 reason for picking a frame by most people today is about 1) Looks, and then very close, or nearly the same 2) performance. So if you find a frame you like to look at, and performs well, great.

Good luck.

mrlobber
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Old Foil is not that much aero, so no real point of choosing it over the Evo. Neither aero is Cannondale (Cervelo said tied with most un-aero road frame along with the Tarmac out there :D), however, the Evo is overall (in my opinion) a better bike and smoother/more comfortable than the Foil although I know guys who are quite regularly hammering 200 or 300km rides on the Foil anyway.

P.S. I've ridden the Evo a lot, the Foil only a little.
Minimum bike categories required in the stable:
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike

oreoboreo
Posts: 510
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:25 pm
Location: Aloha, Oregon/ Poipu, Kauai Hawaii

by oreoboreo

The EVO is not an aero bike, however it does have smaller tubes which I think makes it more aero than some of the big tube bikes our there. The best part is the ride, not harsh so you are fresher when you need it and stiff enough for big sprints. I have had 3 EVO's and always go back to them.

Scott
Let's finish the ride with a 20% grade.

2011 Scott Addict R1 DA 7900 Matt black
2012 Scott CR1 Pro Ultegra 6700
2015 Specialized SWorks Tarmac Da 9000
2016 Specialized SWorks Tarmac DA 9100

bigpab
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:31 am

by bigpab

Thanks guys...
Cost difference is small around 500 aud
I do worry about comfortable ride...but thats what everyone said to me about the caad10...aluminiun.. everyone said how uncomfortable would be... and i did not long after having the caad a 235kms with over 4000 mtrs of climbing...and felt ok...
The main reason for looking at bikes other than the evo( which im a fan of) is the fact that perhaps is too close on feel to the caad10...
Ive also looked at the bmc tmr01...i like how it looks even tho i understand its a bit out there in looks,i somehow like it...the foil to me is the best looking one followed by the evo...but again my caad10 looks exactly the same.
Thanks for all the comments...im planning on a few test rides...
Also interested in the focus max...

Zigmeister...
Thanks for your very informative reply

sharkman
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:32 pm
Location: the Netherlands

by sharkman

If you race (and have to pay the cost yourself) the Caad 10 will do just fine. Both the Foil and Evo are hardly any better than the Caad.
Evo would be my choice but not at the price difference with the 10 (and the 2016 colours overall are a big no).

Important descision point for me would be the quality of the dealer/seller (and distributor). Cannondale went from the top (Europe) to only moderate and what I've read parts of the world are a lot worse.
Cracked my frame (guarantee) but waiting more than two months for a replacement frameset (still not here) is a definite no go (especially if it's your only bike).

superdx
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm

by superdx

I have both the CAAD10 and SuperSix Evo. I have to say that the Evo rides much more comfortably than the CAAD10, and it's noticeably more responsive to putting the power down. The difference is kind of marginal when looking at Strava data but I feel like I can go faster with less effort with the Evo.

If I had to pick only one bike, it'd be the Evo. CAAD10 is nice to have though, and I take that one on trips with me.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



mattyNorm
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:29 pm

by mattyNorm

After working at a (cannondale) crack-and-fail dealer for several years I will never buy their bikes due to lack of customer support.

Post Reply