Special cups for Campag Super Record Chain sets?

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alpinestar
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by alpinestar

Hi
I just bought a new(used) Campag Super Record 11 speed chainset to replace my Campag Record 10 speed chainset as the rest is updated to 11speed. The chainset cam without BB cups. The original CULT bearings are installed. The seller mentioned that the Super Record uses other bearing cups then the record cups.

Can anyone confim this?

I dident have time to compare them before going to work today, but as far as I remember they looked the same.

ghisallo2003
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by ghisallo2003

Cups have the same dimensions, but the Super Record cups do not have the inner seal because the CULT bearings are more tolerant of water ingress.

Your existing cups will work fine, but in theory, will have marginally more drag because of the inner seal.

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alpinestar
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by alpinestar

OK thanks for the fast response!

I forgot to mention that the cups I have are from Ceramic Speed. I dont know if they have this seal?

Morten

fignonsbarber
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by fignonsbarber

Along the same lines, I'm updating an old 10 speed UT chorus crankset to 2015 chorus 11 speed. I assume the old UT bb cups form 10 speed can be used with the new chorus 11 speed cranks? thanks

highdraw

by highdraw

yup...they will work fignon with your '15 UT crank.
As ghisallo mentioned...only thing diff between cups is SR doesn't have seals to eliminate seal drag for a 1 watt savings...if that ;-) and of course ups the ante for bearing maintenance if riding in the rain.
Me fignon...I would install new cups with your fresh build if you have 10K miles on the old cups. Not essential... but what I would do.
Congrats on your '15 Chorus build. I hope you share your findings here as many don't find a big diff in performance between '14 Chorus which sells for a lot less...even though the redesign is substantial. So would like to hear your opinion.

highdraw

by highdraw

alpinestar wrote:OK thanks for the fast response!

I forgot to mention that the cups I have are from Ceramic Speed. I dont know if they have this seal?

Morten

You can take it apart and see...or you can contact them and ask. No doubt the cups are from Campy but they may have used Record or SR...possibly no seals to give you that uber free spin quality you paid handsomely for. ;-)
PS: you should pull it apart once in a while anyway...learn how to do this...to clean and relube the bearings. They may spec an oil versus grease for those bearings...so best to listen to their recommendation. Torque the center bolt to spec. Lots written about why this matters.

alpinestar
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by alpinestar

You can take it apart and see...or you can contact them and ask. No doubt the cups are from Campy but they may have used Record or SR...possibly no seals to give you that uber free spin quality you paid handsomely for. ;-)

Actually thier website states that they are made by Rotor.
http://www.ceramicspeed.com/sport/products/BottomBrackets/product/CSBB11010202000/BSA-Campy-UT,-Red

CeramicSpeed bearings are handmade in Denmark and installed in aluminium cups made by European Rotor Components.


PS: you should pull it apart once in a while anyway...learn how to do this...to clean and relube the bearings. They may spec an oil versus grease for those bearings...so best to listen to their recommendation. Torque the center bolt to spec. Lots written about why this matters.

Ohh I am a master of this, for some reason this season the BB has creaked a lot. Usually helped by cleaning the cups and the frame where they intercept.

highdraw

by highdraw

Alpine,
What kind of BB do you have? Makes a big difference with Campy UT.


highdraw

by highdraw

I own, have owned and worked on a lot of UT BB's with BSA BB as you have. No creaks.
There are four different techniques for installing BSA cups.
- Dry
- Grease
- Anti Seize
- Loctite

In my experience grease between cups and frame works best.
Torque the cups to Campy's spec.

If you adhere to the above, no creaks...multiple installations.
Good luck

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by graeme_f_k

These things can sometimes be a tolerance problem - the bearings should be an interference fit on the stub-axles but there is no telling whether Ceramic Speed are using the same tolerances as Campag. Given that the difference in ID on the bearing and OD on the axle is only of the order of 0.05 mm, it doesn't take a big error in the max / min values on the bearings / axles to give the possibility of fretting (movement).

It might be worth trying a fit up with a full Campag BB, normal Record cups and FC-RE012 bearings correctly installed (i.e. pressed not slide-hammered) and seeing if you get the creaking issue over time, as the BSC cups are, as Highpath says, really not at all prone to problems in the normal way, if correctly installed.

Check BB facing (if you can get a facing tool onto them past the BB shell) and thread condition, too, and double check the face-to-face dim of the BB shell's surfaces. The dim should be 67.2 - 68.8 mm (68 +/- 0.8 mm nominal).

Last - check the inside surfaces of the cups for evidence of fretting / wear-through on the anodisation. Record cups are hard-anodised, and SR cup anodisation is almost as hard (though as it interfaces with Stainless it doesn't need exactly the same properties), where coloured coatings can *sometimes* be softer of themselves and may not impart as much hardening to the material underneath the coloured surface ... wear will produce the possibility of movement and that is a worsening spiral ...

Some problems like this are eventually traced to movement between the threaded BB liner and a carbon BB shell (if that is how the frame is configured).

HTH
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Hi Graheme, since you posted here I am going to take advantage of your knowledge while you might still be lingering... you mention above that the anodization between SR cups and Record cups is different. I was not aware of this, just thought the SR were black and the Record were that other color (pewter or something). I had one instance of a Chorus setup where the bearings were so seized to the cups that I had to take a hammer and wooden dowel to pound out the drive side crankset. Thinking that would have to loosen it at some point, I hit harder and harder till it did. It was so seized that the crank eventually came out, but leaving the bearing and retaining circlip (yup, that too) in the cup. It was bad.
Here's what it looked like... the wetness is mostly penetrating oil which I was using to help loosen it up, mixed with rust of course...
Image

I asked the owner, my ex-girlfriend, what the hell she does when she washes it. In fairness, she was riding all through the winter in our very wet climate, but still... I said jokingly "what do you do, spray the pressure hose right at the bottom bracket after every ride?". She responded in all seriousness "well how else am I supposed to clean it". Ok... best not to pursue that last response any further I thought. Anyway, upon inspection of the bottom bracket there was no drain hole at all, it was completely enclosed, so any water that gets past the bearings stays in there for quite some time. Or just sits inside the bearings themselves with no ventilation to speak of. Rather than start drilling the frame, I decided to use a set of SR cups instead of the Chorus cups, albeit with some new Chorus bearings, with the idea that since there are no seals in the Super Record cups, at the very least it might allow for some better drainage and ventilation of the bearings themselves. Along with stern advice to try not to spray water directly at the bearings.

It was a conscious decision on my part to go that way (use SR cups with Chorus bearings) in this particular circumstance so if it continued to rust out due to water that's on me. But my question is, is there a downside to using SR cups with Chorus bearings due to the different anodization providing proper maintenance and inspection is done regularly?

Thanks,
Cal
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bikerjulio
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by bikerjulio

I decided to use a set of SR cups instead of the Chorus cups, albeit with some new Chorus bearings, with the idea that since there are no seals in the Super Record cups, at the very least it might allow for some better drainage and ventilation of the bearings themselves.


Personally I would have drilled the frame and kept the sealed cups. With your solution, any water that found it's way to the BB area would have to drain through the bearing, where the outer seal would be trying to hold it. End result - the same as photo.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Well, at least the SR cups have no seals at all so at least water could at least pass through as opposed to be held even more between the seals in Chorus cups. If it was my frame I would have drilled the sucker. But it wasn't mine and it was fairly new. I checked with the manufacturer and of course you know the answer... "Drill any holes in that frame and warranty is void". First frame had to be sent back because they forgot to drill the hole for the front derailleur cable. So this was the second frame. Should always be a vent/drain hole in a bottom bracket in my opinion. Even condensation can create water in an enclosed BB. Hasn't been an issue since but still, don't like any BB that can't "breathe".
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alpinestar
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by alpinestar

Quick question will these cups work?
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ampbtbr481

States they are for EPS, but is ther eany difference between the cranksets? Super Record vs Super Record EPS?

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