Creaking Praxis BB

[treetrees]

Surely if enough people complain wouldn't the manurfactorers go back to threaded bb as it's not as if you can't fit a 30mm spindle anymore .

[Butcher]

No.

There are not enough people that have issues with the BB that warrant bringing back threaded. It's just the ones that have issues cannot stop whining about it. Therefore it's a problem that is really not that big. The few that cannot be fixed are just that, a few.

[Trkorb]

Surely if enough people complain wouldn't the manurfactorers go back to threaded bb as it's not as if you can't fit a 30mm spindle anymore .

Push fit bearings are not necessarily done to fit a wider axle, they allow for bigger, stiffer and lighter down tubes, and a wider base for chain stays. So I don't see them going anywhere even with the multiple problems.

[treetrees]

That's a shame as all my bikes from as far as I can remember with threaded bb has had no problems.

[highdraw]

No.

There are not enough people that have issues with the BB that warrant bringing back threaded. It's just the ones that have issues cannot stop whining about it. Therefore it's a problem that is really not that big. The few that cannot be fixed are just that, a few.

True that there is no going back but I believe you mischaracterize the issue. Before the latest generation of PF30 with integrated bearings and alloy cups, PF30 was an overall failure of design. It was resurrected by the aftermarket offering integrated bearings into alloy cups that are one piece per BB shell side. Separate bearing and plastic bushings which is what PF30 was originally developed for and top companies like Specialized embraced was largely a disaster and why Big S discontinued their narrow version of PF30 on their top Sworks race bikes after a few years of trying to manage it with too many complaints and also why they continuously changed their published installation practices including adding epoxy before the disbelieving eyes of bike shop techs and the public. So there is a bit of justification behind that whine as it turns out...top bike companies were complicit initially in putting out less than robust designs in their zeal to create market exclusivity to separate their bike from the competition and create more profit. Even BB30 which is inherently more robust can creak when using say grease to install bearings versus Loctite. There are bike shops to this day that still don't use Loctite and some customer bikes creak as a result...this is after all that is known about the benefit of Loctite so plenty of guilt to go around.
Lastly, there is only one chance to make a first impression and this has largely been floundered with Press Fit. But...todays Press Fit solutions have never been better. BB30 and PF30 and latter with proper choice of BB solution can provide miles of noise free and low cost performance. Wider shells have been spawned as mentioned for greater lateral stiffness with different press fit solutions as well when using integrated bearing/bushing solutions that work well if Loctited to the BB shell.

In summary its understandable why some owners are contentious about press fit and mired with the stigma that Press Fit can't be tamed..say owners of high end Specialized and Cannondale bikes...or creaky Madones who paid $10K and their bike shops couldn't quiet them...who tried to make plastic bushings and separate press in bearings work when they were destined to make noise in spite of vigilant and yet flawed practices.

[Butcher]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135194&hilit=poll

The majority here indicates they do not have a problem. Those that do seem to be caused mostly by installation error.

Although I hear what you are saying, do you have facts that support your opinions? I would think most good manufacturers attempt to make a good product. I also know a good manufacturer will attempt to make things better. They also make flops too. All to often cost is a big consideration, but if that is not a consideration, you might as well close the doors.

Heck, I do not know all the ins and outs of why big business does what they do, but I surely think no one here knows all the reasons either.

[AJS914]

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135194&hilit=poll

The majority here indicates they do not have a problem. Those that do seem to be caused mostly by installation error.

That poll shows 26% having problems. That is huge when people have had issues with probably less than 1% of threaded BBs.

I appreciated the knowledge here. This topic is a gem. I've learned a bunch about BB30/PF30. Thanks guys.

[Squint]

Any thoughts on using epoxy? It seems like it might be better than an anaerobic retaining compound and some manufacturers recommend it.

[goodboyr]

I wouldn't. 1. Removal will be problematic.
2. Not sure who you are talking about, but I am not aware of any manufacturer presently recommending it.
3. Apart from the praxis issue, I am still of the opinion that the best way to prevent problems is just following the mfg instructions for your particular components. And in the case of the praxis issues, I would let praxis themselves still guide you and provide support.

[highdraw]

Specialized before they killed it...spec'ed epoxy for gluing their bushings to their carbon OSBB shells because in their experience it worked better than Loctite which they spec'ed for BB30 or they would have spec'ed Loctite or something else for their carbon OSBB bushings.
Praxis by contrast spec's grease for their PF30 plastic bushings. Both aren't best and for the owner to decide.

I would try Loctite before grease.

But have to ask goodboyr, if an owner has installed a Praxis sleeve precisely to the instructions as more than a few have here and elsewhere and their Praxis BB creaks, what would you do?

[goodboyr]

Call praxis.

I used the word "presently" wrt epoxy because specialized moved away from that design as you've stated. No one else uses epoxy.

[boysa]

I have called Praxis. Several times. Found the conversation to be pointless.

[highdraw]

To goodboyr's pointless advice...what would any phone jockey company representative say if an owner called where he adhered to Praxis installation technique and the product creaked? Indeed, a pointless exercise.
Either try an alternative method or chuck the product.

As to goodboyr's further obfuscation, Specialized just abandoned their carbon OSBB in 2015. There are thousands of Sworks bikes in the field with this BB. Just because Specialized stopped making them doesn't mean Specialized pulled the plug on the product specification for installation practice. Epoxy is 'still' the specification for that BB in an effort to keep their plastic bushings from creaking. It IS their present spec for carbon OSBB which they made thousands of...in spite of Specialized stoppage of making that particular style of BB.

[boysa]

+1. I'll tell you the first thing that happens... You get accused of installing said product incorrectly.

[goodboyr]

Once again, you see fit to disparage anyone who disagrees. The op asked for opinions on epoxy. I gave mine. You disagree. Fine. But stop making it personal. And since the mods allow this to happen, I feel no obligation to keep my complaints private. You have a serious behavioural problem that got you banned from other forums, but apparently is fair game here.