Colnago C60 vs Argonaut

[Bely]

I own a c60, but when I get bored of her it will be an argonaut ... It's like the best off the rack suit vs a bespoke suit.. In my simple opinion


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[kgt]

Both Colnago C60 and Argonaut belong at the 'bespoke suit' category IMHO.

[stephenjwhan]

as pretty as the C60 is, i couldn't pass up an Argonaut

[Calnago]

I know Colnagos very well. Nothing bad to say about them. Argonauts are fairly new but I do like their straightish clean lines and design enough that I looked into them a while back. I had some questions at that time and had a brief email exchange with them. I was particularly interested in the bottom bracket and curious about their implementation of the Chris King T47 Bottom Bracket. I used the C60 BB as a standard of comparison simply because I think it is the most robust and best adaptation to today's bottom brackets currently available short of a good old threaded style BB. The response I got indicated a lack of knowledge in what Colnago has done. They said the Colnago just presses in a sleeve into their BB. Not true as the BB of the C60 shell is an integral part of the BB lug and ensures perfect alignment of the two sides. The T47 on the other hand had two pieces, a left and a right and my last question to them was simply how do they ensure that those two halves are in perfect alignment with each other. Perhaps they just got busy and I didn't follow up but I never did get a response to that. At the same time, there was a user on this forum (from Glasgow I believe) who had just done a build thread on his new Argonaut. Shortly afterwards the frame broke as he was seemingly negotiating a turn. It really got me to thinking a bit more about custom one off layups that stretch the limits of weight and in so doing, possibly increase the safety concerns. The small manufacturers simply don't have the means to thoroughly test every custom frame. If you've ever seen some of the destructive testing done by established manufacturers it's pretty impressive and certainly instills a certain amount of confidence that I don't think is completely or feasibly possible with a one off custom carbon layup frame. It would worry me a bit knowing I was essentially being the test mule for that very special super light frame. So while I think their frames are beautiful having seen one in the flesh I'm not sure I would want to go with a carbon layup that was too cutting edge for those reasons I just mentioned but would not have a problem with getting a custom argonaut that was shall we say, intentionally "overbuilt".
The other frame mentioned in this thread I really would like to explore more is the Sarto.


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[RyanH]

The C59 got me to leave Ti for good. If the geometry is right, I don't see the reason spending more for custom.

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[corky]

I saw a guy in the full giro kit riding an argonaut with blue accents at the top of Box Hill last week. Thought it looked good including discs.......

I'd be happy with either, but not really keen on this years Colnago paint schemes, do like MHCF but would prefer white lettering to the silver....

[campbellrae]

I know Colnagos very well. Nothing bad to say about them. Argonauts are fairly new but I do like their straightish clean lines and design enough that I looked into them a while back. I had some questions at that time and had a brief email exchange with them. I was particularly interested in the bottom bracket and curious about their implementation of the Chris King T47 Bottom Bracket. I used the C60 BB as a standard of comparison simply because I think it is the most robust and best adaptation to today's bottom brackets currently available short of a good old threaded style BB. The response I got indicated a lack of knowledge in what Colnago has done. They said the Colnago just presses in a sleeve into their BB. Not true as the BB of the C60 shell is an integral part of the BB lug and ensures perfect alignment of the two sides. The T47 on the other hand had two pieces, a left and a right and my last question to them was simply how do they ensure that those two halves are in perfect alignment with each other. Perhaps they just got busy and I didn't follow up but I never did get a response to that. At the same time, there was a user on this forum (from Glasgow I believe) who had just done a build thread on his new Argonaut. Shortly afterwards the frame broke as he was seemingly negotiating a turn. It really got me to thinking a bit more about custom one off layups that stretch the limits of weight and in so doing, possibly increase the safety concerns. The small manufacturers simply don't have the means to thoroughly test every custom frame. If you've ever seen some of the destructive testing done by established manufacturers it's pretty impressive and certainly instills a certain amount of confidence that I don't think is completely or feasibly possible with a one off custom carbon layup frame. It would worry me a bit knowing I was essentially being the test mule for that very special super light frame. So while I think their frames are beautiful having seen one in the flesh I'm not sure I would want to go with a carbon layup that was too cutting edge for those reasons I just mentioned but would not have a problem with getting a custom argonaut that was shall we say, intentionally "overbuilt".
The other frame mentioned in this thread I really would like to explore more is the Sarto.


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That was me! To be fair, it broke in a pretty hard crash, I wouldn't expect anything short of a CX/Gravel bike to have survived. I'm aware that heavier frames would be a bit stronger, but it was a big impact when it failed, I would have fully expected anything in the super light category to fail. Colnago are maybe the exception to that rule as from what I remember their destructive testing goes well above and beyond the required standards. But then the C60 frame is probably 350-400g heavier than the Argonaut.

The frame broke in a crash after I lost the rear end on a diesel spill at about 55-60kph exiting a right hander. I managed to get the back end back into line but by that point I was going way too fast for the next turn so my only option was to haul the anchors on and hope to slow down enough before going straight off. Unfortunately for me I didn't manage that! Ended up leaving the road still going pretty fast, maybe 30kph. I'd hit a huge pothole at about 50kph with all my weight on the front wheel mid emergency stop and I think that's when it's let go but I can't be sure. I'm 95kg, which tends to lead to some large forces being applied.

I went through a lot of deliberation before I ordered the Argonaut, probably about 6 months of going back and forth, and the C60 was pretty much the last contender that is off the shelf. I only ended up rejecting it because the head tube was slightly too tall for me without using a really steep stem and I have paranoia about Italian companies and warranties!

Any questions let me know.

Cheers,

Campbell

[Calnago]

Yes, that was you. Thanks for filling in a bit more of your crash details. Being a bigger guy myself, I'm a bit leery of the super light stuff. If it doesn't break, it often doesn't inspire confidence in handling. So, how has the repaired, or new replacement, frame been treating you? Do you know if they beefed it up a bit for you the second time around, or if it's the same layup you had initially? I think these small builders often learn a lot from crashes like yours and make changes accordingly if they feel it's warranted.


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[campbellrae]

I'm actually still waiting for it back... Should be finished and sent out this week all going well. The repair has been a lot slower than hoped, but as long as it is back to normal when I get her back I'll be happy.

I'm not sure if they have changed the layup, I haven't asked. When I speak to Ben about the return shipping I'll ask.

I've always been wary of super light stuff as well, especially wheels. I was hoping going custom would be a cure for that, I guess that'll have to wait for a few more weeks while I get used to the bike again.

[kevosinn]

I will comment on the safety issue of a custom bike. It is possible for a small builder to do proper testing that ensures safety. It doesn't mean that they all do it though. I suggest asking a company what they do to ensure the safety of their frames. Cycle testing for fatigue and drop impact tests are the 2 most common.

[fromtrektocolnago]

Are these bikes really in the same league?

[Calnago]

I will comment on the safety issue of a custom bike. It is possible for a small builder to do proper testing that ensures safety. It doesn't mean that they all do it though. I suggest asking a company what they do to ensure the safety of their frames. Cycle testing for fatigue and drop impact tests are the 2 most common.

But for a custom one off layup for an individual customer, it's kind of economically impossible to test it to destruction. The builders make their best guess as to layup required for the desired objective and you take it. You don't get three or four different layups to actually ride in your geometry and then pick the one you like best.


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[jerrybrabus]

No comparation, C60 is the best. (from my side)