Battle of TI

[Poulidor]

Now we are talking...!!!! Awesome...!!!!

[spookyload]

My favorite part of ti bikes are the snobbery that comes out when people starting talking about the best builders. How can you possibly say one person knows ti better than another? They are all freaking welders. Period. And don't throw the expertise of CAD into the mix. If it was 1990, sure, but my teenage daughter can design whatever you need in CAD. She learned that as a freshman. If you want people who have the most experience with ti, I suggest you look to the Chinese company that started in the defense industry. They have been welding ti before most of the companies mentioned were even building bikes. I assure you the standards in ti production for aviation far exceed what they do for bikes, yet the company is looked down upon because it is from China. Does that make theirs better? Nope. I know local welders who see Moots, Lynskey and Tomassini welds and laugh at the quality. Not that they are bad welds, but they are welds made by frame builders. Industrial and aviation welders have standards that bike builders will never touch. If a weld looks like shit on a Moots, do you think they toss it in the discard bin? Nope, they clean it up and polish it out and press on. In aviation, you don't have that option.

So please, tell me what is so magical about a Moots? They buy tubing, cut it and weld it. Honestly their finish is among the cheaper finishes available for ti, yet people accept it because it is magical and says Moots. Their hardtail mtb design was state of the art when Yeti was making Schwinn Homegrowns, but that was 25 years ago. They are so down to earth that they just sold the company, much like Serotta did. Guess what happened to Serotta.

I know some people do cool custom dropouts and such, but again, any water cutter can do that just fine. Ti is a great material to build frames with. That is beyond question. But there simply isn't any voodoo magic that makes one builder better than another. Ti is a hard material and the build process is very violent compared to steel or aluminum. There is very little beauty in what comes out, except in the eyes of the beholder. Didn't mean to rant, but I honestly don't get the label love associated with ti frames. I have two. One bought for price, the other because I thought the Helix tubes looked cool. They both ride great, but I am not sure spending an extra $2000 for the frame would have been noticed had I gotten one of the boutique builders frames. But to each his own. If you want a certain label because of its name, go for it. That is important to some people. It has kept the jean industry in business for decades.

[Wingnut]

Hmm...You basically rubbish most Ti manufacturers and anyone who just likes likes a brand in particular then you you say buy whatever you want because you have two yourself...? If we are to consider everything you mention then that pretty much applies to most bike builders be it Ti, carbon or aluminum...

Ti snobbery? Have you just provided and an example of it to us all...?

[rpenmanparker]

And don't throw the expertise of CAD into the mix. If it was 1990, sure, but my teenage daughter can design whatever you need in CAD. She learned that as a freshman.

Being able to produce a CAD design is one thing. Being able to produce a superior CAD design, a bike that will be a joy to ride in every respect, well that is quite different. So your daughter can go through the manipulations on the computer, but what does she know about bicycle design, material properties, finite element analysis with regard to titanium and bicycles.

I had a beautiful Everti Falcon frame that I loved to look at. It rode like crap. Hard as nails and stupidly unstable. I sold it and bought a Merlin Works CR (built when it was still Merlin) that is even prettier and a dream to ride. The two frames, nearly the same geometry, both have complex tubing: butted, ovalized, shaped, bent, the works. What is the difference. Not something that every designer would know about...apparently.

Who designed and built the bike does make a difference.

[Poulidor]

If you have 30 different shapes of one type of titanium tubes (there are more than 20 different alloys of titanium) to make a frame made of 8 tubes, and on top of that you can butt and shape those tube in different ways, not any great welder will come up with a great bicycle frame. And comparing aeronautical grade welding to the ever so orderly beads of weld on a Moots makes little sense to me. As a matter of fact, and I'll abstain from slinging mud to any brand in particular, there have been many examples of well known awful titanium frames, especially during the early days of titanium frames. So it's not like any good welder can come up with even a decent bicycle frame just because he can weld titanium. Like everything handcrafted, talent, dedication, attitude and smarts come into play when building a titanium frame and that shows in the end product. Of course it does.

[mrowkoob]

I have a Litespeed Vortex (check out the gallery below if you want). I´ve always wanted to have a custom Moots, get measured order it and pick it up personally in Steamboat Springs... but in just pure aesthetics a Passoni is a stunning bike. I tried the old De Rosa when old man de Rosa made them, and it was a noodle.

[PARTIZAN]

WE can stop Talking , Its Baum .
I Love Baums Cause of theire ps But the kill the advantage of Titanium with theire ps.
Bely, you got two besufuful painted Steel Frames , i would choose a pure Titanium Frame without Paint .

I choose kualis , non painted , Cause Ive allready own painted Steel & Carbon .


Next Week Yoshi gonna Start


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[mythical]

My top Ti builders are Darren Crisp and Darren Baum. I both know them personally and I did some vital work for the latter. Both are ace when it comes to their craft. I also like what Firefly does and those I have great respect for are Kish and Kent Eriksen.

Today, I came across the new Litespeed T1SL. It looks like they're doing a good effort to try and get back to their once core business, which is building high-end titanium frames. I applaud their efforts. Too bad it's built with an Easton build kit, as I can think of better specs that'll improve the bike and make it stand out even more.

[PARTIZAN]

My top Ti builders are Darren Crisp and Darren Baum. I both know them personally and I did some vital work for the latter. Both are ace when it comes to their craft. I also like what Firefly does and those I have great respect for are Kish and Kent Eriksen.

Today, I came across the new Litespeed T1SL. It looks like they're doing a good effort to try and get back to their once core business, which is building high-end titanium frames. I applaud their efforts. Too bad it's built with an Easton build kit, as I can think of better specs that'll improve the bike and make it stand out even more.

LS is Nice
But Its Not Custom ...


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[LenJ]

Check out Spectrum too

/\ This

What beats a perfect fit and bike design and then a paint job by Tom Kellogg?

[glepore]

Except Tom isn't the painter...

[PARTIZAN]

Check out Spectrum too

/\ This

What beats a perfect fit and bike design and then a paint job by Tom Kellogg?

timeless, No Paint


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[LenJ]

Except Tom isn't the painter...

I'm pretty sure he is... in fact, he does 100% Of the painting.

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2 ... 16052.html

len

[LionelB]

Don't let the Spectrum 1990's look web site push you away

[arizonahalfnhalf]

That Spectrum!!!!!!

I have a Spectrum CX frame I picked up on eBay that I've had sitting around. It is incredible! Deciding which gruppo to buy for it. Pardon the terrible pics, will have some better ones when built up.