Battle of TI

[rms13]

Let's assume Ora is a reputable builder who does subcontracting work. There is no assurance they do the same job for each company. Quality Control and testing can get farmed out to different companies, and the specs for tube selection even knowing butted 3/2.5 Titanium can vary or not vary based on instructions from Bikes Direct. When you purchase a bike from a high end custom builder they might choose from up to three dozen different dimension tubing. This won't show up a weld issue but it will affect ride quality how the bike performs. And not that it tells the whole story, but the geometry chart for the Le Champion does not vary all that much across sizes.

That's true. But if you use Google you'll find reviews and forum posts from dozens of people that own the BD Ti bike as well as their Ti MTB and cross bikes. Most of the people are experienced riders who've owned many bikes and some owned other high end Ti bikes and I've yet to find one person that owns the Motobecane that has had anything bad to say about it. Maybe a Seven or Moots are better but I still say most riders wont notice any difference besides the $3000 less in their bank account

[rms13]

The difference is that Shimano owns the factories in China, does its own research and development and in control of quality assurance. Motobecane is a purchased name with the building outsourced. There's also something very different about building a bike frame and a component group. The latter is generic and each unit should be identical. The former should vary based on rider, height, weight and riding style.

Items are not inferior because they are made in China, but due to the way the manufacturing and outsourcing is done. Right now you don't see small artisinal companies building bikes in China, its simply not the business model. You don't even see a MOOTS or Seven, what you see are large companies that exist to turn out cheap bikes for western labels or to churn out cheap frames for whoever owns the Motobecane brand name.

The Motobecane is hand welded by "artisans" in Taiwan by ORA

http://oraeng.imb2b.com/introduce/

They have been making Ti frames since 1993 and seem to have a great reputation for quality and for the quality of their welds. I find it hard to believe you'd be getting $3000-4000 more value from a frame welded by an American

Maybe true...some people just don't want their bikes built in Asia...

Yeah and most are for misguided and confused political reasons and not practical reasons. But then again some people think a carbon frame built in China is a death trap but they'll spend $5k for one built in Taiwan. Marketing rules the bike industry

[fromtrektocolnago]

Let's assume Ora is a reputable builder who does subcontracting work. There is no assurance they do the same job for each company. Quality Control and testing can get farmed out to different companies, and the specs for tube selection even knowing butted 3/2.5 Titanium can vary or not vary based on instructions from Bikes Direct. When you purchase a bike from a high end custom builder they might choose from up to three dozen different dimension tubing. This won't show up a weld issue but it will affect ride quality how the bike performs. And not that it tells the whole story, but the geometry chart for the Le Champion does not vary all that much across sizes.

That's true. But if you use Google you'll find reviews and forum posts from dozens of people that own the BD Ti bike as well as their Ti MTB and cross bikes. Most of the people are experienced riders who've owned many bikes and some owned other high end Ti bikes and I've yet to find one person that owns the Motobecane that has had anything bad to say about it. Maybe a Seven or Moots are better but I still say most riders wont notice any difference besides the $3000 less in their bank account

I know a former rider. He said the bike was OK, but when he started pushing the descents the bike did not give him confidence. He sold it and bought a higher end brand within a year.

[spookyload]

I have a BD ti bike I bought for commuting. Tubing is straight and not butted, but everything else was fantastic. I have since bought a Lynskey ProCross because I had money that needed to be spent, and love the downtube. Does it ride better, sure. I paid twice as much for the Lynskey frame as I did for the whole Motobecane. Does it ride twice as much better, nope. Did I feel a loss of confidence riding the MBK? Nope. It was a damn solid ride, but I wanted something purely due to its looks, and I had the bank account to do it. I have owned a Moots and a Litespeed MTB in the past. They were both damn good bikes. Were they better than the MBK? Not really, but again, they both cost more. Resale is the one place you will notice a difference in US custom builders. If I decide to sell the MBK, I will likely get about $500 for the frame/fork. With the other bikes I sold, I was able to get a much higher amount.

And whomever said it is easy to remove the Motobecane decals was easy, it isn't. I spent nearly four hours removing them.

[PARTIZAN]

Kualis
Cause He has so much Experience.
My kualis in Progress


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[PARTIZAN]

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[tmchen]

Beautiful stuff. I'm really tempted to get a Kualis frame as well but in steel this time.

Another Japanese frame maker would be tig-titanium. Their main business is ti wheelchairs but they do make their own frames and their own mix of ti alloy.

[benzebub]

hello guys,

just giving this topic a bit of a kick because I'm also looking at a Ti frameset.

builders currently on my list:

Kualis (kind of set on going this way)
No 22
Crisp
Aura cycles (not much info on them to be found)

if anyone can share some experience they have with these builders (or recommend some others), that would be great!

[BRM]

KUALIS moves to Japan from US

KUALIS CYCLES headquarter is being moved in June from US to Japan.
Unable to accept new orders at this time. New shop is going to be restarted in August.

[solarider]

Gotta be Seven. To me they are the best all rounder. Some do nicer welding (but not many!). Lots do nicer painting (admittedly not Seven's strongest point in terms of design and execution but why paint ti?!). Nobody knows geometry better. Their finish is a breeze to take care of. Their materials quality is first class. Their ability to fine tune the ride is unparalleled. Their warranty is legendary. The carbon seat tube insert removes any issues with seizing and fit. The s bend stays have real word clearance and ride benefits.

Above all, as an all round package it is hard to beat the ride quality of a Seven because they will built it just as you ask for it.

[ebsilon]

Gotta be Seven. To me they are the best all rounder. Some do nicer welding (but not many!). Lots do nicer painting (admittedly not Seven's strongest point in terms of design and execution but why paint ti?!). Nobody knows geometry better. Their finish is a breeze to take care of. Their materials quality is first class. Their ability to fine tune the ride is unparalleled. Their warranty is legendary. The carbon seat tube insert removes any issues with seizing and fit. The s bend stays have real word clearance and ride benefits.

Above all, as an all round package it is hard to beat the ride quality of a Seven because they will built it just as you ask for it.

+1 [emoji106]

[CustomMetal]

I've got a Burls and have a Tom Sturdy on order.. having already had a custom bike from Burls and Saffron, sturdy is on another level!! So impressed with his knowledge and customer experience.. can't wait for the bike to arrive but have no doubt it will be great. His manufacturing techniques are really cutting edge for bespoke builders... if I could afford to have his road version as well as his gravel version I would!

[moyboy]

No.22 built me a nice custom drifter x, Love it!

About 12 weeks to get the frameset, and the welds by Frank are amazing.

hello guys,

just giving this topic a bit of a kick because I'm also looking at a Ti frameset.

builders currently on my list:

Kualis (kind of set on going this way)
No 22
Crisp
Aura cycles (not much info on them to be found)

if anyone can share some experience they have with these builders (or recommend some others), that would be great!

[tabl10s]

Deleted.