Venge Vias Backlash.....

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highdraw

by highdraw

Good point goodboyr. Only counterpoint to that is no e cables for brakes that also route thru the stem.
If e cable unions are made just inside the steerer this would make it a lot easier so maybe that was part of the consideration. Still have to pull the brake cables thru the frame. 50% reduction though in hassle if pulling up the stem to change it or change stack height which is quite a save in labor. Good thought.

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goodboyr
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by goodboyr

Yup. Still have my suspicions about the vias brakes. Only time and real ride reports will tell.

joepac
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by joepac

BlackMadone wrote:This is not true... Sagan swapped to the ViAS from his tarmac around the last 20km of the race. This begs the question of why didn't Sagan ride the ViAS for the entire race?

I have said it before and I will continue to say it... I do not think I will ever understand the point of this. How is this ever faster!? I would much rather take a harsher or less aero ride than have to traverse the entire peloton. The energy saved would more than make up for any disadvantage :| . (Unless there is a TT up and down a mountain with a bike change from 6.8kg bike at the top of a hill to a 100kg for a downhill :noidea: ).

I guess it makes sense for the press?

aerodynamiq
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by aerodynamiq

goodboyr wrote:Yup. Still have my suspicions about the vias brakes. Only time and real ride reports will tell.


Many different opinions about the brakes. Rumor's saying Cavendish hates them. My local mechanic was personally surprised with the modulation and power. I guess you can't listen to anyone else's voice when it comes to braking though. You just have to test ride yourself.
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tinozee
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by tinozee

Cav is famous for hating his gear when he's not performing. He hated the entire Sram red group as well. Someone put him on a Ridley with EPS lol.

efeballi
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by efeballi

The whole pit stop thing is awakening the F1 fan inside me.
Start on the softer tyres...erm, the ViAS and build a gap. After that, switch to the Roubaix to save your legs and switch to the ViAS again at the final to gain a few places.

When someone looks like he's going to do a pit stop, pit before him, go all out when your rival is in the pits. Try to keep him behind you with your worn tyres...erm, legs until the finish.

Nah, the F1 analogy didn't work. But still it could be interesting, with a Giro stage went through Imola, Abu Dhabi Tour had a stage in Yas Marina and all that...


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highdraw

by highdraw

joepac wrote:
BlackMadone wrote:This is not true... Sagan swapped to the ViAS from his tarmac around the last 20km of the race. This begs the question of why didn't Sagan ride the ViAS for the entire race?

I have said it before and I will continue to say it... I do not think I will ever understand the point of this. How is this ever faster!? I would much rather take a harsher or less aero ride than have to traverse the entire peloton. The energy saved would more than make up for any disadvantage :| . (Unless there is a TT up and down a mountain with a bike change from 6.8kg bike at the top of a hill to a 100kg for a downhill :noidea: ).

I guess it makes sense for the press?

No...it doesn't make sense for you. But pros leave little to chance. They believe swapping bikes makes sense and what matters. And since they do this for a living and test against the clock, they must believe it adds merit in some instances to change bikes. Sagan didn't do it in the worlds including at the end when he performed his break away...but part of that was on a cobbled surface with a very short and steep climb.
So he was protected in the peloton and that last bit of the race maybe favored the choice of Tarmac. To me, most of it makes sense but the public may not quite understand it.

highdraw

by highdraw

aerodynamiq wrote:
goodboyr wrote:Yup. Still have my suspicions about the vias brakes. Only time and real ride reports will tell.


Many different opinions about the brakes. Rumor's saying Cavendish hates them. My local mechanic was personally surprised with the modulation and power. I guess you can't listen to anyone else's voice when it comes to braking though. You just have to test ride yourself.

Maybe a brake pad and wheel compatibility issue. Type of wheels Cav rides may not play nice with the VIAS brakes or pads.
Guess the truth will come out eventually.

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djconnel
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by djconnel

I thought the pit stop thing was enlightening. When I have raced I've always viewed pack position as golden. No way I give it up for a marginal change in bike. I've only got a small number of matches to burn But Sagan can move up fairly effortlessly, I'm sure.

This year all my races have been hill climbs so these are inapplicable.

jeffy
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by jeffy

sagan also change helmet to an evade (and gave his hair a brush, and shook olegs hand) ... all in front of a press pack of photographers

DanW
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by DanW

Maybe a brake pad and wheel compatibility issue. Type of wheels Cav rides may not play nice with the VIAS brakes or pads.
Guess the truth will come out eventually.


Guys, Chris Yu was on this very site and said that teams were supplied with the new Venge far too close to the TDF for them to have tested let alone trust a new bike and that they didn't have production brakes ready either. So Spec messed up the production deadlines around the release and it has cost them bad press. This may or may not translate to what you can buy now. Pros are notorious for sticking with what they know rather than what may be the *best*... maybe in time we'll see a shift

LionelB
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by LionelB

jeffy wrote:sagan also change helmet to an evade (and gave his hair a brush, and shook olegs hand) ... all in front of a press pack of photographers

did he shave his legs as well :D

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theremery
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by theremery

Dunno about some of these comments but my old Venge handled like a total pig. It pushed out of corners when you tried to get real pace out of it SO badly that I sold it and was compelled to warn any prospective buyers that it descended like a pig (it was better than my fake Venge but not by much!!).
When I changed brands, I realised that my "rapid degeneration into a descending nana" was in fact frame based. Got an S3 and never looked back, and I'm back to descending like a rocket and LOVING it. I can even descend my S5 significantly faster than the Venge and the S5 isn't known for awesome descending (I think they are OK tho!)
Itreally could be that the rep for the Venge to be a bit awful has finally caught up with Specialized and they are starting to wear the cost now.
I'm an aero-geek nowadays (Thanks DJ...you got me on to this) and I still won't buy a viass. I keep accidentally calling them VIALs (which when spoken = VILE) which is probably not mentally helpful either.
Updated: Racing again! Thought this was unlikely! Eventually, I may even have a decent race!
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-group)..woo hoo Racy Theremery is back!!

awjpca
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by awjpca

That's interesting. Now I'm curious to try a Cervelo. I like my Venge, but I don't really have other road bike experiences. It seems to have faster acceleration than my buddy's Tarmac though. Maybe that's due to frame stiffness, or a placebo.

Is it just the handling you find better on the S3/5? What makes you more confident descending on the Cervelos? I heard, and am under the impression that they feel more "slippery" when it comes to aero, but also that they're not as stiff. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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joepac
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by joepac

theremery wrote:Dunno about some of these comments but my old Venge handled like a total pig. It pushed out of corners when you tried to get real pace out of it SO badly that I sold it and was compelled to warn any prospective buyers that it descended like a pig (it was better than my fake Venge but not by much!!).
When I changed brands, I realised that my "rapid degeneration into a descending nana" was in fact frame based. Got an S3 and never looked back, and I'm back to descending like a rocket and LOVING it. I can even descend my S5 significantly faster than the Venge and the S5 isn't known for awesome descending (I think they are OK tho!)
Itreally could be that the rep for the Venge to be a bit awful has finally caught up with Specialized and they are starting to wear the cost now.
I'm an aero-geek nowadays (Thanks DJ...you got me on to this) and I still won't buy a viass. I keep accidentally calling them VIALs (which when spoken = VILE) which is probably not mentally helpful either.


I really like my Venge Pro's handling... I have the descent KOMs to prove it 8). It feels very similar to the Tarmac and Allez I tested. The steering input is very responsive/almost twitchy, which I like. My other bike is a Masi Evoluzione, which feels muted and like it understeers in comparison. I tried both the CAAD10 and Supersix out too, but they both had muted feeling and handling. Very similar to my Masi. Despite the Supersix being lighter I went with Specialized because I liked handling so much better. It was like driving my mom's old Toyota Matrix versus driving my Dad's Honda S2000 (probably not as big a difference in grip, but still, a muted grocery getter with understeer versus a compact sports car that attacks the corners :mrgreen: ). I was going to get a Tarmac, but got a great deal on the Venge. The handling was so similar it wasn't much of a choice. I still race the Masi in crits just because I don't worry about wrecking it as much as the Venge. My fear of wrecking the Venge more than negates any handling superiority, the mind is a powerful thing. I've noticed is that the muted feel also does a little better on bumpy roads. On a pure handling basis I like the Venge better because of the more compact geometry and responsiveness. The grip limits of both are pretty similar; the size of the rims/tires and the type of tire dictate that more than the frame.

When I look at a new bike I will have to give the Cervelos a try and make sure I haven't been missing out :thumbup:

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