Venge Vias Backlash.....

[goodboyr]

At the risk of resurrecting a potential flame (frame) war.....

Friend of mine just put in his order for a Venge Vias Di2. So, like a good engineer/mechanic, I went to the Spesh site and downloaded the manual. It would be a better read with the bike in front of me so I could play and visualize better.....but boy this thing seems complicated to build up. And if there is an issue, there's some pretty proprietary and tricky routing. Have a look......

http://static.specialized.com/media/docs/support/0000054872/0000054872.pdf

[nickcube]

My head hurt the whole way through reading that, If anyone buy one of these, make sure you get your mech a slab of beer to go with it

[aerodynamiq]

Did anyone say user friendly?

[highdraw]

At the risk of resurrecting a potential flame (frame) war.....

Friend of mine just put in his order for a Venge Vias Di2. So, like a good engineer/mechanic, I went to the Spesh site and downloaded the manual. It would be a better read with the bike in front of me so I could play and visualize better.....but boy this thing seems complicated to build up. And if there is an issue, there's some pretty proprietary and tricky routing. Have a look......

http://static.specialized.com/media/docs/support/0000054872/0000054872.pdf

That manual was posted quite a while ago in the thread...in fact I believe twice if you read back thru the thread. To me there is NOTHING complex about the bike. The only variance with any average top race bike sold by all manufacturer is routing the cables thru the stem. In some ways this installation is easier than external cable routing to internal frame routing common on current bikes where the housing has to be sized outside the bike and then the bare cable threaded thru the frame. Some complain about ICR bikes as well.

The issue with the bike however will be to cable changes and maintenance and even set up. Want to change a stem?...need to remove all four cables unless you have Di2. Want to change a single spacer under the stem? Have to remove all four cables unless you have Di2 which you mentioned previously if you can position the e cable junctures inside the steerer tube. So the bike is clearly more fiddly in this capacity even though there is nothing technically complex about it. There maybe some learning curve to the brakes as well but even Shimano's recent caliper brakes which I believe to be best in class have quite a bit of adjustment if you want to take the dive and set them up perfectly. Other than that, the Venge is the same bike as a Tarmac or many others out there and the seat post for example is even less fiddly than many mast type spacer cut to height types and the VIAS has industry standard BB30 as well.

Pretty sure the new Madone also has cable routing thru the stem as well. If you want to spend $13K for a new bike then integration is the future. Top manufacturers not only make more money with their halo bikes in terms of profit but integration spells more profit in terms of proprietary parts sold as well. Would I buy such a bike? No because I am not a CAT 1 or 2 and the .005% reduction..joke... in drag means nothing to me and so I don't want to spend the money or deal with hassle of removing the stem to change a rear derailleur cable. Pehaps even more important to me is...I change up my riding position from time to time and don't want to buy proprietary stems either and don't want to remove the cables to add or subtract a 5mm spacer under the stem. Not complicated just to me unnecessary and needless.
Current bikes like the one I ride already have the cables routed thru the handlebar and thru the frame just not thru the stem which is how I like it but others will like no cables at all showing and of the course the imperceptible reduction in air drag.
The new Venge is a very exclusive bike and no doubt will be slippery and I believe fully internal cable routing is the future on very high end bikes for those that want it.

[Calnago]

Did anyone say user friendly?

[emoji1] No, I don't think they did.

[goodboyr]

I went through the entire thread before I posted the link, it might have been talked about, but never posted.
It sounds like your only quibble is the word "complicated".
It looks like housings have to be prexut before installation. There's a table with housing lengths to precut.

[DartanianX]

We have our brake installation down to a fine art now. No notchy, underpowered brakes. With a mechanic who takes his time to understand how the brakes work, and the relationships between parts then you'll have no issues.

They are no longer a deal breaker for any of the 10 we have sold.

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

[Butcher]

Although I have not seen the new Venge yet, I support DartanianX opinion that a mechanic who takes their time and understands the system, will not be overwhelmed. I like technology and support breaking the mold. Maybe this is not the perfect way to run a cable and the second generation will be better. Obviously the bike does not work for everyone.

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari and those that do, rarely work on them. I would not want Ferrari to make a user simple car, there are other manufacturers for that market.

[goodboyr]

Yup. I'm actually excited to take a look at this thing close up and see how it's put together.
Up here in the great white north, its tough to find good mechanics at lbs given the seasonal nature. So, much of my work for the club is redoing bad builds on new bikes. Should be interesting with this one. I know the store he is getting it from and their shop guy is OK but not the best.

[highdraw]

I went through the entire thread before I posted the link, it might have been talked about, but never posted.
It sounds like your only quibble is the word "complicated".
It looks like housings have to be prexut before installation. There's a table with housing lengths to precut.

It was the centerpiece to your post so yes, I take exception. The bike isn't complex. The VIAS is a Model T compared to a Ducati 4V motorcycle. If you think a Venge VIAS is complicated, never attempt a valve adjustment on a Ducati Desmoquattro...basically an IQ test for a mechanic. Most will fail. A good mechanic can handle it of course.

Nothing complicated about cable installation compared to a more conventional race bike. What blows about this bike is how you have to disconnect the cables from the derailleurs and brakes to make a common stem change or stem spacer change. Its not complicated by rather a PITA.

edit: goodboyr...I believe you were correct and the VIAS manual wasn't posted previously in this thread. It was posted twice in a previous aero bike thread I believe and when I downloaded and read it. Spesh does a nice job on putting their tech info in PDF for owners and mechanics who wrench on their bikes.

[highdraw]

I agree and of course even the same manufacturer i.e. Specialized makes alternative race bikes which are easier to maintain.

Although I have not seen the new Venge yet, I support DartanianX opinion that a mechanic who takes their time and understands the system, will not be overwhelmed. I like technology and support breaking the mold. Maybe this is not the perfect way to run a cable and the second generation will be better. Obviously the bike does not work for everyone.

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari and those that do, rarely work on them. I would not want Ferrari to make a user simple car, there are other manufacturers for that market.

[highdraw]

We have our brake installation down to a fine art now. No notchy, underpowered brakes. With a mechanic who takes his time to understand how the brakes work, and the relationships between parts then you'll have no issues.

They are no longer a deal breaker for any of the 10 we have sold.

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Good post...from somebody who knows...thanks.
How would you rate brake performance in terms of modulation and overall power relative to lever effort compared to conventional DA calipers?

[Zigmeister]

Saw one at the local bike shop the other day. Man, anybody who has to run a spacer under the bars...will look super ridiculous. They had the full 3-4 spacers that are different thickness under the bars of course with no stem cut. I could imagine maybe with 1 of the thinner, it wouldn't look so bad, otherwise, it looks pretty silly.

Also, very hard to get used to those brake fairings/wings on the bike. Really odd looking as well. I know effective. But since 80% of drag is the rider. Doubt this bike won't save you but 5 seconds over any other aero frame over 40k. Of course, that assumes solo into the wind. In the peloton...any old bike sitting in the draft is as effecient as an aero bike.

That said, love my Scott Foil still, and looking forward to the new one, the Vias/Foil and a few others, like Argon 18 aero pro, all are following very similar designs, especially with the rear triangle etc.

Also, $6200 for the frameset along? Hardee har....

On the other hand, really liking my new Specialized Pro Expert saddle.

[spdntrxi]

The ones you see in the shop are uncut until someone buys it...

[marcelflash]

Also Specialized was very helpfull to our shop with a Vias training, and tips over the telephone when asked.
Just use your logic and skills. It is still a mini V-brake with the same issues only in a other way.
No real world experience with braking power yet. I`d like to hear from other people!