Pound for Pound best bike in Pro Peloton?

[Calnago]

Nothing is "wrong" with the lugged construction. In fact, it offers up some significant advantages... Customization of frame geometry being one of them. You can still get custom geometry from Colnago if you want. For example, I have a friend who is about the same height as me but with a much shorter inseam. He had a C59 built for him with a shorter head tube etc but a top tube that was relatively long for that head tube lug. There is a bit of wiggle room in the lugs as well when setting up in the jigs to get the angles just perfect. In short, you can still get custom geometry if you want, but it's rare that you might need it with Colnago's size structuring. Thomas Voeklers bikes were somewhat customized this way. Secondly, they have a lot of control in getting the lugs perfect. The BB lug of the C60 incorporates what I believe to be the best implementation available today for the many Pressfit options out there. BSA is still better in my mind but with the way the market is going sometimes you're forced to change with it or get left out in the cold. So, making the best of a bad situation Colnago has opted to thread some alloy inserts into their BB shell, which are replaceable if they ever need to be. This allows for a much more sound base with better tolerances for which to press in the various BB systems. With molded frames the size customization is not possible (you get what comes out of the mold) and implementation of a BB system like Colnago's Threadfit offering would be either impossible or so cost prohibitive in a mold that it's not feasible.
Having said that there are advantages to laying up carbon fiber in a mold that can't be ignored either. While overall frame size and geometry customization is not on offer with a molded frame, the ability to fine tune various characteristics at any point in the structure is. Thinner here, stronger there, orienting the fibers in certain directions depending on the specific requirements of that small section... the amount of fine tuning that can be done is amazing.
In sum, I could not pick just one frame as a standout in the peleton. Any frame is capable of winning, it just depends on who's riding it. I do love my Colnagos for sure. I also have a Trek Emonda which I love the ride of as it's got almost identical geometry to my Colnagos, but definitely has a controlled "give" to the ride in comparison. I think TREK as a company is my favorite these days. They seem to think things though and have excellent R&D and their bikes have nice lines to my eyes and their size offerings will like accommodate most anyone. I like Colnagos for their no nonsense traditional look. It's perfect. Damn, there's a ton of nice bikes out there these days.

[davidalone]

^ Disadvantage of lugs- it's typically heavier than if you built an equivalent monocoque or tube to tube. but he's right. far more options for custimization and lengthening the lifetime of the design.

[jooo]

Not a Specialized 'fan' at all but an Astana Tarmac would be a pretty nice race-bike IMO. Super Record mechanical, low profile Corima's, S-Works crank which has awesome SxW, allows the use of a PM and factory rings. It all just screams no-nonsense performance to me.

Price to performance ratio wise my pick is Movistar's Canyon w/Campa

Hate their paint/clothing design but it's a great value for money pro bike (if you're from Europe of course).

[XCProMD]

Yes, the colours are hideous.

About lugs, what you use to trim geometry is not the "give" of the tube in the lug, it would be a disaster to glue a frame with unwanted internal tensions that would eventually sum to the service loads. Furthermore the glue thickness layer is crucial for reliability.

What lugs allow to do is to create a matrix in which the different anglings permit a wide array of usable geometries with the least amount of lug variety.

Another interesting thing with lugs is the decoupling between lug and tube can be tweaked depending on the interface, thus stiffness and damping can be adjusted during the design stage.

Weight is an issue with lugs, but again the interface design can do a lot to keep this problem at bay. Also, the lug and tube thickness can be made variable so the level of stress can be high enough as to take the most out of the material.

[spookyload]

All reviews and happy owners confirm it is not a reputation bike at all. Just one of the best frames money can buy.
BTW the new Venge is not even used by its sponsored riders.

Most owners of bikes will rave about their ride. Particularly when they have as much invested as Colnago owners do. If you are talking about pro riders not riding the venge, I would assume they aren't as the new design is a 2016, and they would still be riding the 2015 design through the end of the season. You will see some of them riding it next year. Will Bert? No. Not his style of bike. Would Cav if he was still on a Specialized team...yep. It is about the style of rider and the bike he chooses. Thus, Cancellara rides a different Trek than his team mates, and Greipel rides a Noah while his team mates ride Heliums.

What's exactly wrong with a lugged design if I may ask?

Nothing. Did I say there was. I simply said they have been producing the same bike since the 90's. Very little movement forward in research and design. If lugs are so amazing, why are no other top manufacturers using them however? If you own one of these frames...great. Enjoy the ride. I was simply stating my opinion. Yes, the C-40 in Geo paint was amazing and I wanted one badly...in 1998. Lugged frames kept my fancy as I owned three LOOK lugged carbon frames, but since, I have also enjoyed my LOOK 695, and I can honestly say the ride is much more amazing than the 381, 481, or 585 I rode previously.

[sawyer]

winguy is right ... pound for pound only makes sense
here in terms of price/performance. And on that basis
the answer is Canyon

More interesting is what you'd pick given a free choice.
Canyon would be pretty high up my list on that basis
as well to be honest, though perhaps not the very
top

[MikeyBE]

Pound for pound - what about focus? Shame they don't really do an aero bike.

Sent from my 6039Y using Tapatalk

[DanW]

Not a Specialized 'fan' at all but an Astana Tarmac would be a pretty nice race-bike IMO. Super Record mechanical, low profile Corima's, S-Works crank which has awesome SxW, allows the use of a PM and factory rings. It all just screams no-nonsense performance to me

Got to agree with this. It's kind of a quirky build that you wouldn't expect from a "factory" bike but screams performance to me too. Not sure on the "pound for pound" aspect but I hear if you email Astana with a pic of you wearing a "I love Vino" T-Shirt the mans ego will get the better of him and he'll hook you up... so I suppose it is good value too

[jooo]

I imagine it wouldn't stack up so well here with 'Australia tax' in full effect, but in Europe it seems like it would be reasonable even if Specialized is a bit pricier relative to the competition than in their home market. Corima seems great value for money and Campagnolo doesn't demand quite the same price premium compared to the USA, let alone the highway robbery it can be for their components here in the southern hemisphere

[campyjoe]

I would think the Trek Emonda would be a good consideration. You can get them in a variety of prices. The frames do become lighter as the quality of carbon becomes better which also increases cost.

[yosti]

Merida Scultura Team. Its light, stiff and pretty aero for a climbing bike

[DanW]

Changed my mind although the pound for pound aspect goes well and truly out the window

[nobuseri]

I'll always favour the SuperSix HiMod, all other things being equal, the Ford GT40 of the peleton. Shame it hasn't ever been under a better team.

As far as frames go, my vote would have to agree with the above; otherwise, SS EVO. Call me a Cannondale fan/lover - I don't care.

Specialized and their Tarmac have made a great case in recent years as being a good "pound for pound" contender.

I am american, so I can't really vote for Canyon at the moment.

[MisterMuncher]

In truth, it's probably whichever one has just been refreshed so the previous model that's 95-99% identical is cheaper. At RRP, very hard to look past the 'dale or Canyon offerings.

Money being no object, yeah, I'd take any of them. Except maybe a Cippolini, and even that's purely on aesthetic grounds.

[XCProMD]

What's exactly wrong with a lugged design if I may ask?

Nothing. Did I say there was. I simply said they have been producing the same bike since the 90's. Very little movement forward in research and design. If lugs are so amazing, why are no other top manufacturers using them however? If you own one of these frames...great. Enjoy the ride. I was simply stating my opinion. Yes, the C-40 in Geo paint was amazing and I wanted one badly...in 1998. Lugged frames kept my fancy as I owned three LOOK lugged carbon frames, but since, I have also enjoyed my LOOK 695, and I can honestly say the ride is much more amazing than the 381, 481, or 585 I rode previously.

I don't own one of those frames. They are terrific though.

In my previous post I explain some benefits of a lugged construction.

"Very little movement forward in research and design." Apart from the lugged frame concept and the overall geometry, what do the C40 and C60 share in terms of interface design, tube layup, material and section, lug material, design and manufacturing process?

Why no other top manufacturers using lugs? It is expensive and requires a good grasp on how to make tensions flow from parts that work as a beam to parts that work as a shell or somewhere in between. It is not only Colnago making lugged carbon frames, but Colnago has a problem with their fans, and for instance the C60 wasn't welcome: "too fat tubes".

Making a bladder and mild monocoque these days is nasty cheap. Go to the FM thread and have a look. Those brokers on eBay are making a profit, the manufacturer is making a profit and the frames cost very little north of 300€.