Poll - Does your Bottom Bracket Creak? PressFit Vs Threaded

[Willem]

I used Campagnolo square taper for years then went to external cups, no creaks or clunks at all...all my frames have threaded bottom brackets and any future frames will also...

Who still makes high end light weight frames with threaded BB's?

[maverick_1]

Cipo RB1k with Campy BB30 pressfit adapter.
Minor creak.
Problem resolved after replacing the UT Crankset to OverTorque crankset.

@Willem,
None?? As far as I know, Pina F8 still is the only manufacturer out there with threaded BB.
On a Sarto, you do have the option for a threaded BB if you want to.

Cheers

[mpulsiv]

I'm not using PF30, I'm using straight BB30, the spec and shop manual of which specifies grease, not Loctite.

Here in lies the overarching problem and I touched upon it in my thread. There are divergent messages sent by major manufacturers of PF. As a result the public is handcuffed by mixed messages. The guys that work at bike shops...a very large quantity are like sheep led by the industry. There are an enlightened few that know what they are doing but a large percentage don't. I would love to know the percentage of shops throughout the US that still use grease between bearings and bores for BB30. Sadly the non mechanical public that relies on their bike shops for best practices are misled. BB30 has been around the industry now for years and is more or less the industry standard for PF...largely because of its reliability.
A single interface of bearing to frame. Almost perfect cylindricity...the way the bores are machined for a single insert molded alloy sleeve set in the frame and btw virtually identical to how a BSA alloy sleeve is laid into a carbon frame mold...only BB30 does not have a threads and has lockring slots for bearing perpendicularity...and for all you BSA stalwarts out there...BB30 provides better bearing bore alignment, reduced spindle drag than BSA statistically. And yet, many and perhaps even most shops use grease. If you can find a lingering spec for using grease on BB30...these practices in fact largely generated this poll and interest in it. Practices and manufacturer spec's have evolved is the point, but many including your bike shop and you, haven't. No, it isn't easy for the average guy to sort out. The fact that you would even consider using grease to press in bearings and expect them to stay seated with a lubricant between the bearing outer race and frame shell alloy bore ID says it all. The physics don't work. Grease is the opposite of what you want. If you don't want the bearings to move in their respective bores, an adhesive is desired and NOT a high viscosity lubricant aka grease. Sorry but this is basic.
Here's another basic tenant of living. If you want better traction on the bottom of your hiking boots, don't put grease on your soles....or don't grease your hands if trying to climb a rope...lol.

Specialized has perhaps the greatest R&D of any bike company. There are many examples of this with all their products from their framesets, wheelsets, saddles, handlebars and even shoes. Even this great company which is highly engineering intensive has morphed their BB installation practices and even their BB designs as discussed as the industry moved away from BSA which just 4-5 years ago you could even get on a S-works bike. Specialized in 2015 abandoned their 61mm wide version of PF30 as well.

So I want to post the installation practice for the industry standard BB30 that Specialized uses on their top Sworks, Pro and Expert level bikes. Note they specify green Loctite 640 which is very similar in properties to 609 and 641 also commonly used by the industry.

In summary, the premise of your post about tolerance sensitivity is flawed and will continue to be. Yes installation 'would' be sensitive if you use grease between bearings and bores....because greases 'promotes' bearing movement and not inhibits it.

And if you want a true mixed message about using grease versus Loctite, look no further than Trek's BB90 on their flagship Madone. For all intents, BB90 is simply a wide version of BB30...exact same bearing interface to frame and yet, it would be hard to find a Trek BB specification for Loctite even though Loctite is the best solution if you want to ride a Madone in silence.
Here is public forum that discusses:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/compon ... 16354.html


Specialized Loctite spec for BB30 below:

2017 Specialized lower end models (Sport, Elite and Comp) back to threaded BSA. Essentially any model up to $3000. Why would they do this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ebruner]

I used Campagnolo square taper for years then went to external cups, no creaks or clunks at all...all my frames have threaded bottom brackets and any future frames will also...

Who still makes high end light weight frames with threaded BB's?

Pinarello.

[MisterMuncher]

I'm not using PF30, I'm using straight BB30, the spec and shop manual of which specifies grease, not Loctite.

Here in lies the overarching problem and I touched upon it in my thread. There are divergent messages sent by major manufacturers of PF. As a result the public is handcuffed by mixed messages. The guys that work at bike shops...a very large quantity are like sheep led by the industry. There are an enlightened few that know what they are doing but a large percentage don't. I would love to know the percentage of shops throughout the US that still use grease between bearings and bores for BB30. Sadly the non mechanical public that relies on their bike shops for best practices are misled. BB30 has been around the industry now for years and is more or less the industry standard for PF...largely because of its reliability.
A single interface of bearing to frame. Almost perfect cylindricity...the way the bores are machined for a single insert molded alloy sleeve set in the frame and btw virtually identical to how a BSA alloy sleeve is laid into a carbon frame mold...only BB30 does not have a threads and has lockring slots for bearing perpendicularity...and for all you BSA stalwarts out there...BB30 provides better bearing bore alignment, reduced spindle drag than BSA statistically. And yet, many and perhaps even most shops use grease. If you can find a lingering spec for using grease on BB30...these practices in fact largely generated this poll and interest in it. Practices and manufacturer spec's have evolved is the point, but many including your bike shop and you, haven't. No, it isn't easy for the average guy to sort out. The fact that you would even consider using grease to press in bearings and expect them to stay seated with a lubricant between the bearing outer race and frame shell alloy bore ID says it all. The physics don't work. Grease is the opposite of what you want. If you don't want the bearings to move in their respective bores, an adhesive is desired and NOT a high viscosity lubricant aka grease. Sorry but this is basic.
Here's another basic tenant of living. If you want better traction on the bottom of your hiking boots, don't put grease on your soles....or don't grease your hands if trying to climb a rope...lol.

Specialized has perhaps the greatest R&D of any bike company. There are many examples of this with all their products from their framesets, wheelsets, saddles, handlebars and even shoes. Even this great company which is highly engineering intensive has morphed their BB installation practices and even their BB designs as discussed as the industry moved away from BSA which just 4-5 years ago you could even get on a S-works bike. Specialized in 2015 abandoned their 61mm wide version of PF30 as well.

So I want to post the installation practice for the industry standard BB30 that Specialized uses on their top Sworks, Pro and Expert level bikes. Note they specify green Loctite 640 which is very similar in properties to 609 and 641 also commonly used by the industry.

In summary, the premise of your post about tolerance sensitivity is flawed and will continue to be. Yes installation 'would' be sensitive if you use grease between bearings and bores....because greases 'promotes' bearing movement and not inhibits it.

And if you want a true mixed message about using grease versus Loctite, look no further than Trek's BB90 on their flagship Madone. For all intents, BB90 is simply a wide version of BB30...exact same bearing interface to frame and yet, it would be hard to find a Trek BB specification for Loctite even though Loctite is the best solution if you want to ride a Madone in silence.
Here is public forum that discusses:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/compon ... 16354.html


Specialized Loctite spec for BB30 below:

2017 Specialized lower end models (Sport, Elite and Comp) back to threaded BSA. Essentially any model up to $3000. Why would they do this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same reason Cannondale use threaded on bikes below Tiagra/10 speed. 10, 9 and 8 speed BB30 cranks are hen's teeth at this point. It makes better economic sense to spec a lower end crank and adapter than to over-spec with a 11 speed BB30 crank, chase up the last stocks of low end BB30 cranks, or produce one of their own.

[mpulsiv]

I'm not using PF30, I'm using straight BB30, the spec and shop manual of which specifies grease, not Loctite.

Here in lies the overarching problem and I touched upon it in my thread. There are divergent messages sent by major manufacturers of PF. As a result the public is handcuffed by mixed messages. The guys that work at bike shops...a very large quantity are like sheep led by the industry. There are an enlightened few that know what they are doing but a large percentage don't. I would love to know the percentage of shops throughout the US that still use grease between bearings and bores for BB30. Sadly the non mechanical public that relies on their bike shops for best practices are misled. BB30 has been around the industry now for years and is more or less the industry standard for PF...largely because of its reliability.
A single interface of bearing to frame. Almost perfect cylindricity...the way the bores are machined for a single insert molded alloy sleeve set in the frame and btw virtually identical to how a BSA alloy sleeve is laid into a carbon frame mold...only BB30 does not have a threads and has lockring slots for bearing perpendicularity...and for all you BSA stalwarts out there...BB30 provides better bearing bore alignment, reduced spindle drag than BSA statistically. And yet, many and perhaps even most shops use grease. If you can find a lingering spec for using grease on BB30...these practices in fact largely generated this poll and interest in it. Practices and manufacturer spec's have evolved is the point, but many including your bike shop and you, haven't. No, it isn't easy for the average guy to sort out. The fact that you would even consider using grease to press in bearings and expect them to stay seated with a lubricant between the bearing outer race and frame shell alloy bore ID says it all. The physics don't work. Grease is the opposite of what you want. If you don't want the bearings to move in their respective bores, an adhesive is desired and NOT a high viscosity lubricant aka grease. Sorry but this is basic.
Here's another basic tenant of living. If you want better traction on the bottom of your hiking boots, don't put grease on your soles....or don't grease your hands if trying to climb a rope...lol.

Specialized has perhaps the greatest R&D of any bike company. There are many examples of this with all their products from their framesets, wheelsets, saddles, handlebars and even shoes. Even this great company which is highly engineering intensive has morphed their BB installation practices and even their BB designs as discussed as the industry moved away from BSA which just 4-5 years ago you could even get on a S-works bike. Specialized in 2015 abandoned their 61mm wide version of PF30 as well.

So I want to post the installation practice for the industry standard BB30 that Specialized uses on their top Sworks, Pro and Expert level bikes. Note they specify green Loctite 640 which is very similar in properties to 609 and 641 also commonly used by the industry.

In summary, the premise of your post about tolerance sensitivity is flawed and will continue to be. Yes installation 'would' be sensitive if you use grease between bearings and bores....because greases 'promotes' bearing movement and not inhibits it.

And if you want a true mixed message about using grease versus Loctite, look no further than Trek's BB90 on their flagship Madone. For all intents, BB90 is simply a wide version of BB30...exact same bearing interface to frame and yet, it would be hard to find a Trek BB specification for Loctite even though Loctite is the best solution if you want to ride a Madone in silence.
Here is public forum that discusses:
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/compon ... 16354.html


Specialized Loctite spec for BB30 below:

2017 Specialized lower end models (Sport, Elite and Comp) back to threaded BSA. Essentially any model up to $3000. Why would they do this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same reason Cannondale use threaded on bikes below Tiagra/10 speed. 10, 9 and 8 speed BB30 cranks are hen's teeth at this point. It makes better economic sense to spec a lower end crank and adapter than to over-spec with a 11 speed BB30 crank, chase up the last stocks of low end BB30 cranks, or predictive one of their own.

Cannondale 10 speed Tiagra is not even in the same category as Tarmac 11 speed with full Ultegra 6800 build http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ ... omp/118206 even Di2 is back to threaded BSA http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ ... di2/128747

[dcpdpayne]

When I bought my Kent Eriksen Ti frame my only choice was threaded. Kent, who knows a thing or two about designing bikes, only builds threaded bikes due to creaking issues.

[MisterMuncher]

The economics remain the same, though. Mid- and low- end BB30 cranks don't really exist any more, especially with FSA shifting wholesale to BB386.