Disc brakes in California?

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

I rode in the "rain" this morning, here in Glendale/LA. It "rained" pretty hard but I've ridden in far worse conditions, for perspective.

The usual hilly route - 30mi, ~4500ft ascent - to start off the morning. The hills here are steep and twisty. The road quality is mixed. The steepest descent I had to face is around 12-14% with plenty of hidden driveways (the ride takes place in the morning when people are headed to work). I had to make one emergency stop - CNC caliper brakes on carbon rims - and never once did I think "wow I really need a disc frame!"...

It's really up to you. How comfortable you are in descending. How well you can handle your bike in adverse conditions. It's all up to the individual to be *honest* with their own abilities. If you have, be honest with yourself, fear in descending or sometimes lack confidence/concentration when conditions get averse, you may want to consider disc brakes.

Otherwise... it's this:
Stolichnaya wrote:California + dry + no rain + aero penalty + weight penalty = whole lotta nope.
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gazzaputt
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by gazzaputt

RyanH wrote:Latern, I actually think that would be an argument against disc brakes since you're more likely to experience brake fade if you drag brakes.

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See here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JplymlruPZ8 . No brake fade at all

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eric
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by eric

California's a big state with a lot of different climates. If I lived again on the north coast which has a climate like Seattle, and hills, I'd want discs and fenders on my training bike. If I lived in San Diego or the southern desert where it very rarely rains, no.

I live in the coastal mountains in the middle of the state (just south of SF). Here it rains pretty often in the winter and spring in most years (we're in a drought and it hasn't rained as much the last couple years). And the rest of the year there's often fog in the mountains and fog drip on the road. I've been ok with my rim braked rain bike but I have worn out a front rim. If I were to build a dedicated rain bike I'd get discs.

The other day I was doing repeats on Mt Diablo. Instead of the usual searing heat in August, it was raining. After the first ascent I had the very unpleasant experience of heading down the steep one lane road at the top, squeezing the brake levers as hard as I could and still accelerating. The rims had gotten soaked on the climb. They did finally clear but it took about 100 feet.

So the factors are: how much does it rain in the part of California you're concerned with, and do you ride in the rain.

Lieblingsleguan
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by Lieblingsleguan

gazzaputt wrote:
RyanH wrote:Latern, I actually think that would be an argument against disc brakes since you're more likely to experience brake fade if you drag brakes.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


See here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JplymlruPZ8 . No brake fade at all

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mrowkoob
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by mrowkoob

I have no problems going down descents in the rain with rimbrakes unless I am on fullcarbon tubular wheels...
My interest in disc wheels is for descents in hot and dry conditions where rim heat is a safety issue. Were talking long descents here. Down Alp, Pyrenee or Dolomites. I´ve had the unfortunate experience of an exploding tire due to rim overheat going down a descent at about 85 km/h.... And yes I know how to brake on a descent.... Anyway this is where disc brakes are interesting to me. I´m going to put it on my climber bike and never worry about an exploding tire again...
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Stolichnaya
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by Stolichnaya

Tire explosion on a high speed descent is terrifying. If you are writing to us still, hen you seem to have gotten through that experience without permanent injury, which is very good.

I make a pilgrimage the big mountains annually and have had some death grip situations on descents with carbon rims and never had a tubular go wonky on me. Were you using clinchers when the tire exploded?

MikeDee
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by MikeDee

Stolichnaya wrote:Tire explosion on a high speed descent is terrifying. If you are writing to us still, hen you seem to have gotten through that experience without permanent injury, which is very good.

I make a pilgrimage the big mountains annually and have had some death grip situations on descents with carbon rims and never had a tubular go wonky on me. Were you using clinchers when the tire exploded?


If you got a blowout on a high speed descent, it wasn't from the brakes. By definition, high speed means light braking.

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madcow
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by madcow

I'll add an opinion. Living in Tucson we see rain basically one month a year during our monsoon and rarely outside of that. I recently finished a new Parlee disc for myself. More of a gravel bike than a true road bike. 1x11 Di2 using a mix of 785 and XTR and with 28c small knob tires, that still manages to come in under 6.8 kgs and is amazingly fun to ride. Are disc brakes necessary? certainly not. Are they even an advantage? No, probably not. But I still really enjoy them because they are super precise and work with a really light touch. At the same time I have other bikes with EE and Fibula brakes and they certainly don't ever leave me feeling as though I'm missing something. Basically it comes down to the same argument I had with Di2, it's not needed but it is fun.

It does help to solve heat issues with carbon rims, but at the same time it has it's own heat issues in the same circumstances. So for me there is no need that justifies having them, it's simply a matter of wanting. If it's something you want, go for it.

eagle34
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by eagle34

^^ Well said

MikeDee
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by MikeDee

eric wrote:California's a big state with a lot of different climates. If I lived again on the north coast which has a climate like Seattle, and hills, I'd want discs and fenders on my training bike. If I lived in San Diego or the southern desert where it very rarely rains, no.

I live in the coastal mountains in the middle of the state (just south of SF). Here it rains pretty often in the winter and spring in most years (we're in a drought and it hasn't rained as much the last couple years). And the rest of the year there's often fog in the mountains and fog drip on the road. I've been ok with my rim braked rain bike but I have worn out a front rim. If I were to build a dedicated rain bike I'd get discs.

The other day I was doing repeats on Mt Diablo. Instead of the usual searing heat in August, it was raining. After the first ascent I had the very unpleasant experience of heading down the steep one lane road at the top, squeezing the brake levers as hard as I could and still accelerating. The rims had gotten soaked on the climb. They did finally clear but it took about 100 feet.

So the factors are: how much does it rain in the part of California you're concerned with, and do you ride in the rain.


Disc brakes suck in the rain too. It depends on how hard it is raining.

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mrowkoob
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by mrowkoob

[/quote]

If you got a blowout on a high speed descent, it wasn't from the brakes. By definition, high speed means light braking.[/quote]


No to me. It means no braking until just before the turn, then short decisive braking just before the turn, no braking while turning. Up to max speed until the next turn .... and repeat....
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Stolichnaya
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by Stolichnaya

I get your point MikeDee, but a lot of riding in the Alps and Dolomites is what mrowkoob is mentioning - high speed section then hard braking followed by anoher high speed section. Heat from repeated hard braking when descending through steep roads with switchbacks might be the cause of a tire failure when braking or in later the faster straightaways, or it could be a bad tire that was gonna go regardless of being exacerbated by the braking. In any event, I will continue to rely on the glue and not clincher hooks when roads get steep and speeds high.

ethanfiamingo
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by ethanfiamingo

Stolichnaya wrote:California + dry + no rain + aero penalty + weight penalty = whole lotta nope.

Check back when the industry has the standards worked out and there is no penalty for beefed up frames, forks, added spokes, heavy calipers, etc.


Im not trying to be rude but this is a terrible equation that only leads people to believe there is no elevation gain or loss in CA, however it is quite the opposite. I love the discs when descending, so positive and consistently strong that its almost inviting to go faster.

Obviously in a few years the tech will be better but the same can be said with absolutely ANYTHING!

Im really excited at the prospect of a carbon tubi without a break track. You could easily reduce your total rotational weigh by 15-25%... Which disproves any weight penalties aswell as it is a much more noticeable loss of weight.

eagle34
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by eagle34

Im really excited at the prospect of a carbon tubi without a break track. You could easily reduce your total rotational weigh by 15-25%... Which disproves any weight penalties aswell as it is a much more noticeable loss of weight.


Ummm... Disc brakes have some pretty significant mass, which is more than any you're saving from the carbon brake track. Also, isn" the rotating disc is apart of the rotational mass?

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ethanfiamingo
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by ethanfiamingo

eagle34 wrote:
Im really excited at the prospect of a carbon tubi without a break track. You could easily reduce your total rotational weigh by 15-25%... Which disproves any weight penalties aswell as it is a much more noticeable loss of weight.


Ummm... Disc brakes have some pretty significant mass, which is more than any you're saving from the carbon brake track. Also, isn" the rotating disc is apart of the rotational mass?



Pretty significant mass?

EE brakes are aroun 195g a pair (static)
Ashima Ai2 rotors are 125 a pair (rotating)

Yes the calipers are an additional 100g each... but imo a total of 325g compared to 200g which is one of the lightest road calipers available is not that bad... and I am still weighting to see the tech improve too but the di2 D/A Hydro is pretty much tits, just needs a little slim down.

BUT

The rotational weight that is picked up at the center of the hub is less noticed and helps maintain center of gravity as speed increases due to its low and symmetrical location, similar to a ballast on a boat. However, the mass at the outside of the rim only hinders acceleration, deceleration.

PLUS its NOT just the brake track that would be removed it would be the clincher bead as well... Imagine a rim so low that it looked like you are just riding on the tire. Could be cool I'm sure some one will poorly execute it, no clincher or brake track could mean one solid U shaped layup...

I do not think that they are necessary but should be more welcomed. Yall is haters

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